Paladin Updates

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

Extra damage output is pointless if you have to run 2 whms vs. 1 whm. dropping a whm adds another DD job to the mix which by itself will outproduce the warrior tank in raw numbers (unless your second whm was nuking to make up the difference). Everything will be more and more situational as things are nailed down and i'm looking forward to it.

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Try to beat Princess, Chimera and Misers Mistress with 1 WHM...PLDs self heals doesn't make a 2nd WHM obsolete...you still need a 2nd WHM for things like keeping the Party alive on Add phases, which a single WHM can't do plus keep the PLD alive...god people, start thinking pls.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I'm just gonna quote this war/nin became the flavor of the month when they added ACC food which made multi hit was good for something before all single target skills was best except for on drg who had acc traits which helped them not miss as much.

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An excellent example of context, wouldn't you agree? One "small" change influencing, even creating, large sweeping changes to the mechanics of the game.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

Just to add something:

I made my first 8/8 EXP party the other day. I went PLD with 2 other GLAs. Despite the tankiness, we were still rockin' pretty hard. Very little downtime with good exp (about 45k an hour I think, vs level 40 ants).

No WARs were present in the making of this party. Everyone played what they wanted, and we all had a blast.

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Unfortunately we're not really talking about EXP parties, but rather the way players approach end game content. However that does not change the fact that with a strong party setup, there is a distinct possibility that could have been rolling down a much higher rate.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I know what you were saying lol, I just thought you were making a good ole excuse for the ridiculous mentality of the community. Course now I know you were just offering a reason.

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And objectively it is a very good reason. Your opinions are just that; subjective, and you show your true colors in the use of the word "ridiculous". Your disdain is quite clear in this regard and I have an inkling it has been brought about by some event.

But we are not enemies. It is SE's encounter design you dislike. That is at the root of the problem when you break it down.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

As long as I can fulfill my role as a Tank that's all that matters to me. . . . lies. You can fulfill that role on Pld, you choose warrior cuz its easier. If you prefer tanking on Pld, then do it. Even silly vids online have Plds tanking new content with no problems.

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Given the DMG my group does, NO I CAN'T do my job on PLD, cause he won't keep hate over them, while WAR does...this is not a question of easier, this is a question of who's better tanking job and WAR is.

If you think WAR tanking is the an excuse for wanting to make things easier, why not play all your roles naked without any abilities used? This is just a stupid argument...

He does all the things that PLD does, just better...if you want to gimp yourself, that's your choice, but I want to perform as best as I can on my role, which is tanking, which WAR does and PLD doesn't...simple as that.

It's actually possible to do all three, we do mistress every time with 1 whm. Chimera can be done with 1 whm, but it's alot more sketchier as more things can go wrong. Same with Ant Queen. Would I do it everytime? Nope, I want to get the dungeons done as efficiently as possible because of the asian drop rates.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

Given the DMG my group does, NO I CAN'T do my job on PLD, cause he won't keep hate over them, while WAR does...this is not a question of easier, this is a question of who's better tanking job and WAR is.

If you think WAR tanking is the an excuse for wanting to make things easier, why not play all your roles naked without any abilities used? This is just a stupid argument...

He does all the things that PLD does, just better...if you want to gimp yourself, that's your choice, but I want to perform as best as I can on my role, which is tanking, which WAR does and PLD doesn't...simple as that.

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If you can't do your job on Pld then you fail compared to youtube vid posters.... this should make you sad if you're so awesome. lol Lots of people run one whm for these situations, Mistress is almost all 1 whm, 1 war, 6 mnk burn now... Ant takes a couple good blm/thms not an extra whm, i do concede that chimera can be pretty tricky just because of the various mechanics in his(or her, idk chimera gender!) fight leading to more errors that can occur.

I don't think you could use one WHM and PLD on any of those since the WHM would be pulling too much hate on cure bombs. Maybe on miser if you got lucky with locking up bad breath.

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Originally Posted by Takinagi

I don't think you could use one WHM and PLD on any of those since the WHM would be pulling too much hate on cure bombs. Maybe on miser if you got lucky with locking up bad breath.

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A WHM pulling hate with cures off a PLD? I'm sorry, but even if PLD isn't at the same level as WAR, this is stupidly unlikely if your PLD is...you know...competent.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

Given the DMG my group does, NO I CAN'T do my job on PLD, cause he won't keep hate over them, while WAR does...this is not a question of easier, this is a question of who's better tanking job and WAR is.

If you think WAR tanking is the an excuse for wanting to make things easier, why not play all your roles naked without any abilities used? This is just a stupid argument...

He does all the things that PLD does, just better...if you want to gimp yourself, that's your choice, but I want to perform as best as I can on my role, which is tanking, which WAR does and PLD doesn't...simple as that.

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Please stop saying this... warrior tanks are preferred for the HP... not enmity....
Yes warrior does more damage...
but come on
Take coincounter as an example....
With AOE rampart (The biggest hate puller in the game) and war drum....
that alone makes up for the extra WAR damage....
And if that wasn't enough... PLD can spam Holy Succor and cure..... in which case you'd have to do more than 1k damage every 10 seconds consistently to build that much hate.....
Massive enmity abilities... massive healing and decent damage.... PLD pulls more hate....

WAR is the tank of choice because PLD just has 2 major problems...

1. HP... thats a big deal

2. A lot of PLD hate relies on healing... but then PLD gets abilities that mitigate damage
Protect + Stoneskin + Divine Veil + Aegis Boon and you can literally spend 45 seconds of every minute not taking physical damage. So you either ignore the abilities so you can heal and build hate... or use the abilities and hope there are enough people around you when you cast "Rampart" to generate the enmity needed
Its a design flaw... for sure

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Please stop saying this... warrior tanks are preferred for the HP... not enmity....
Yes warrior does more damage...
but come on
Take coincounter as an example....
With AOE rampart (The biggest hate puller in the game) and war drum....
that alone makes up for the extra WAR damage....
And if that wasn't enough... PLD can spam Holy Succor and cure..... in which case you'd have to do more than 1k damage every 10 seconds consistently to build that much hate.....
Massive enmity abilities... massive healing and decent damage.... PLD pulls more hate....

WAR is the tank of choice because PLD just has 2 major problems...

1. HP... thats a big deal

2. A lot of PLD hate relies on healing... but then PLD gets abilities that mitigate damage
Protect + Stoneskin + Divine Veil + Aegis Boon and you can literally spend 45 seconds of every minute not taking physical damage. So you either ignore the abilities so you can heal and build hate... or use the abilities and hope there are enough people around you when you cast "Rampart" to generate the enmity needed
Its a design flaw... for sure

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I agree with everything except....

What ability let's you not take physical damage for 45 seconds?

Yes but clearly since you can having 5-6 DPS pulling 100+ DPS on Coincounter with a WAR tank, killing it in under 2minutes, you don't need all that superfluous enmity PLD can generate. It's a talent that is wasted/lost on that fight.

Extra enmity does not always make up for the loss of significant damage. If you are holding "just enough" enmity to keep stuff of BLMs in the above scenario or are a PLD skyrocketing past their enmity levels, then the largest different in the fight is the lost DPS from the tank.