Why is RDM invisible right now? Where is the outrage?

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Not even close, it would be a versatile caster/fighter hybrid with healing tools. You know... A Red Mage.


That sounds like more of a problem with raid design than anything else. RDM shouldn't be able to heal well enough to be the sole healer, but it *should* be able to heal well enough to be the secondary healer in a party with a single dedicated one. If the fights don't require a dedicated healer, then they should be made more healing-intensive.




I'm sure there are many ways they could go about it, but some ideas include making the heals themselves relatively weak but include beefy shields or strong regens.

They're not even trying with RDM right now, that's the problem.

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I would like this very much, and I agree, I would like red mage to BE a red mage and not a reskinned Black mage

People are asking for red mage to get rid of rez it's white magic kit like, if you don't like having a Rez, there's another selfish DPS job you can take, it's a black mage

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

I would like this very much, and I agree, I would like red mage to BE a red mage and not a reskinned Black mage

People are asking for red mage to get rid of rez it's white magic kit like, if you don't like having a Rez, there's another selfish DPS job you can take, it's a black mage

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it's not that people don't want white magic expansions, it's that there is a fine line to walk and what can be reasonably expected. if RDM got a weakned healing kit thats more effective in alot of scenarios than it realistically should be. you end up in a much more dire scenario where teams are taking RDM and the Best Healer and for a total of 5 dps. the reverse is what we're experiencing where RDM has so little WHM parts in it's kit, that it might just be easier to remove whats holding it back and expand on RDM in more dps positive scenarios. More raid buffs, more damage, more mobility, and things of that nature. If RDM were to get more defensive utility, it'd have to be weak enough that RDM can't realistically replace a healer but the job would still need to be comparable to BLM and SMNs performance to not be completely overshadowed. it basically needs to get defensive utility for free for this to be worth doing

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

RDM had both dualcast and raise as far back as FFV so it's not like it's unheard of.


What's clear is that you *want* that to be the end-of for my suggestion, but in reality, no. I don't want RDM to be a healer. I want it to be the versatile caster/fighter hybrid RDM is supposed to be, and that means it should be able to heal. Why do you think "This isn't a game where hybrids work"? There's absolutely no reason why a hybrid should simply not be able to work, that is just an excuse for someone who is either too lazy to make it work or simply doesn't want it to work.


You act like just because RDM has the capability to stand in for a healer that that automatically means every party is going to want a red mage to stand in for a healer. If your argument is "We need to stop Red Mage from being a Red Mage because then everyone would realize our game doesn't actually require two dedicated healers" then you might as well be saying the game should force people to take healers even when they aren't necessary. How is that supposed to be acceptable game design.

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What you're asking for is impossible. Just look at BLU.
Hybrid jobs don't work in this game, you either make RDM a healer or a dps and if it is a dps its healing tools must be weak enough that rdm doesn't jeopardize the whole healing role.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

Hybrid jobs don't work in this game.

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Even as keen to agree as I may be... there's actually zero proof yet that hybrids wouldn't work in this game seeing as we have yet to see even a single non-comically haphazard attempt at such.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Even as keen to agree as I may be... there's actually zero proof yet that hybrids wouldn't work in this game seeing as we have yet to see even a single non-comically haphazard attempt at such.

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Let me answer your question with another question.

In any MMO has there ever been a hybrid that wasn't:

A) Shunned from group play, where specialization for efficiency is king, for being meh at everything
B) Only kept around for the one thing they inexplicably do well, for example WoW Paladin Auras or R(efresh)DM from FFXI
C) Only used in extremely niche circumstances, which somehow justifies it being absolute pants at every other part of the game.

FFXIV design wishes to make sure every class can at least beat any content within the 2 Tank, 2 Healer and 4 Damage framework. Remember Ramuh EX anyone? When Titan Egi could Tank it better than the gosh darned tanks so all the tanks where excluded for more damage dealers. I never seen S-E patch so fast.

And what suggestion from Katie Kitty?

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

beefy shields or strong regens.

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May as well delete SCH and AST right there and then.

But I know what this is. I've seen this waaaay too many times on this forum to count. It a good old fashioned "I don't care how many classes and other players get shafted as long as I get the vision of my Pet Class that I want."

Just another to add to my pile of examples that I will bring up when people whine about BLU favoring identity over substance.

B) Only kept around for the one thing they inexplicably do well, for example WoW Paladin Auras or R(efresh)DM from FFXI


FFXI Dancer can heal using it's Curing Walts using TP for healing, as long as your ACC hits and use your steps ( Box step, quick step, Feather step or stutter step) and use reverse flourish to get your TP back from performing Finishing Moved, you can perform as a healer if necessary.

And Dancer can acts like a hybrid but could also be a good Debuffing DD job


Also Red mage isn't there for Refreshing anymore, they have GEO and BRD from that now

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

FFXI Dancer can heal using it's Curing Walts using TP for healing, as long as your ACC hits and use your steps ( Box step, quick step, Feather step or stutter step) and use reverse flourish to get your TP back from performing Finishing Moved, you can perform as a healer if necessary.

And Dancer can acts like a hybrid but could also be a good Debuffing DD job

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Sing it with me now!

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A) Shunned from group play, where specialization for efficiency is king, for being meh at everything

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To be fair people only used the class for Sub Jobbing. Doesn't really help when your best part is making another job better.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Also Red mage isn't there for Refreshing anymore, they have GEO and BRD from that now

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So what you are saying is RDM got bumped down from:

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B) Only kept around for the one thing they inexplicably do well

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To

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A) Shunned from group play, where specialization for efficiency is king, for being meh at everything

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In summation, the problem with RDM is the Trinity?

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Originally Posted by Razard

Snip

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To be fair, I main Dancer with a subjob for /WAR to get the best damage output for me

My point I'm getting at is there is room for hybrid, while a white mage can perform better at healing, if played right or if the white mage does, can be a good healer

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"So what you are saying is RDM got bumped down from:
B) Only kept around for the one thing they inexplicably do well
To
A) Shunned from group play, where specialization for efficiency is king, for being meh at everything

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And no, red mage is not shunned from group play, i see people asking for Red mage for endgame content all the time in FFXI in the chat

Here is a guide for you for FFXI red mage since you don't know what FFXI red mage is anymore


https://youtu.be/weFGFpHmcNY

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Originally Posted by Zyneste

I've though about what Kabooa has said before too, I think it might be too on the nail cheesy though. An OGCD that gives a healer back 1/4 of their MP, and makes their next raise instantcast. Put it on a 1 minute cool down and its pretty similar to SMN in raise potential, with each having their own weakness. A little convoluted but gives BLM an option for recovery support. Most BLMs wouldn't want that though Id wager.

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The thing is you could remove the 'instant cast raise' part and leave it as a 1 minute CD. This gives it a fair amount of flexibility all around. It's MP for the healers, it's MP for Paladin, it's MP for Dark Knight if that changed (I haven'ted tested since can't), it's just a bundle of MP that anyone can use. It satisfies two of the three things Raise brings, and it can, with Sharpcasts increased frequency, be utilized more often with optimization in mind and not just recovery.

One of the first non-potency suggestions that came up in Deltascape was making Mana Shift better and exclusive to Black Mage.