Selling Ultimate Weapon Ultima Is Apparently Not Against the ToS

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Originally Posted by Alleo

If they sell Ultimate even just for Gil (which they dont because some of those FC have price lists on their website) its still against the ToS because they are using the account of the buyer to clear it for him because you can only do those fight with 8 very good players.

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But none of that is stated in the PF. Hence my point, another poster was saying anyone that puts up a PF like this should be banned because it's obvious what they're doing. However it's really not that obvious. From a pf saying "We're selling clears message us on discord" it's not clear its for real life money, that they're controlling the person's account, or that the posters dont have characters on other servers.

I guess this also kind of explains why it's not against ToS because from their "vague" postings it's not super obvious what's going on from that information alone.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

But none of that is stated in the PF. Hence my point, another poster was saying anyone that puts up a PF like this should be banned because it's obvious what they're doing. However it's really not that obvious. From a pf saying "We're selling clears message us on discord" it's not clear its for real life money, that they're controlling the person's account, or that the posters dont have characters on other servers.

I guess this also kind of explains why it's not against ToS because from their "vague" postings it's not super obvious what's going on from that information alone.

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You can't clear ultimate without controlling another person's character. The very act of selling that alone, along with O8S is proof enough.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Yes. You can't trade gil or items with a person unless they are in your world. The fact that they sell runs but refuse to talk about it at all in party finder (hence the ilvl set to a level where no one can join) and link to an off-site medium of communication is proof.

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So the seller creates an alt on your world, you trade the gil to the alt, once alt has collected enough gil to be worth a paid transfer they convert gil to stacking inventory items like Clear Demimateria (to get around the gil transfer limit) then transfer the character to the main world.

Are they actually doing that? Of course not but it's still possible. Without some sort of proof it's a real money sale, SE isn't going to do anything and that proof is never going to appear in game records unless the seller is dumb.

What I don't get is why gaming companies don't take more active measures in having members of their GM staff investigate the PF sell listings, posing as buyers using normal accounts with characters leveled normally (they could use characters on accounts they had banned for service violations since the original players are obviously no longer using those accounts). As employees on the clock using company equipment, they can record their conversations made outside of game as proof.

I understand that those selling likely have multiple accounts they use but still one account caught and closed is a chance for a slip to be made and their other accounts identified. At the very least, it has to make them wonder if it's worth the effort if the next buyer turns out to be SE.

In FFXI a few years ago there used to be pretty constant advertising for spots in fell cleave burns. Basically you paid a bunch of gil to be powerleveled from 30 to 99 while afk. But then SE decided that those kind of shouts were disruptive and usually linked to RMT and started taking action against them. And after that I never saw a single shout for those parties again.

If they really wanted to SE could just say that using the party finder for selling runs is disruptive and probably linked to RMT and ban people who do it.

I've sold so much content I'll be able to retire at 38

Git Gud scrubs

It is kind of strange how much more competent XI's GM/STF teams seemed compared to XIV.

They obviously weren't perfect, but it's easier to tell that they actually tried to keep things under control.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

But none of that is stated in the PF. .

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Its not stated but its not like GMs cant look into data and see for example that someone suddenly logged into this from a different place. And seeing how you can only do Ultimate with all 8 people being fantastic players you can take from that, that someone took over the 8th one. This is alone from game data and thinking about the skill restriction of a fight. Now next to that there are FC that have their own websites selling clears for money. And if all that is not good enough a GM could just try to contact them with a fake account and see if this is for gil or not and how they are planning to clear it without breaking the part about account sharing.

Honestly they should just put out a new rule in the ToS that states that any selling of clears are forbidden thus the act of putting on a ad in party finder or talking about that ingame could be punishable. This way they dont even need to know discord information.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Its not stated but its not like GMs cant look into data and see for example that someone suddenly logged into this from a different place.

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Say I visit my friend down in the US for a weekend. My ISP will come from a different location. What about people who use VIPs? Tracking based on ISP is a wonderful why to ban completely innocent people, especially since the overwhelming majority neither buy nor sell runs.

That being said, yes, they could simply ban it from PF. Why don't they? It costs more money than its probably worth. At least in their eyes.

Threads like these I will always interpret as people can't sell content themselves as they're bad.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

As far as I've heard, the only reason people get banned for botting, hacking, etc is if they specifically mention it in their chat and thus give the GMs some easy evidence they can use to incriminate them.

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False. Had an FC member admit to it in chat. Reported it. He's still here.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Threads like these I will always interpret as people can't sell content themselves as they're bad.

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Why don't the buyers just git gud?