When will we get the PVP system for PVE ?

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Originally Posted by Miste

I mean personally if you want to change DRG into 1-1-1-1-1--2-2-2-2-2 or 1-2-2-2-2-2-3-3-3-3-3 that seems like a good way to get a RSI. Which is why if they ever forced consolidation I'd probably quit.

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Even if they would force it...this is a rather weak argument, you know. What stops you from adding the same button onto two or more slots and pushing them in a variation of whatever sort you want? Even if 1-2-3 would bring the same result as 1-1-1, 1-2-1, 1-1-2, 3-1-2, 2-3-1 and about two dozens more...it's about you pushing different buttons, right? I'd say this is even better, since you could actually push ANY of the three buttons in whatever order YOU want, instead of always going in the exact same order of 1-2-3, just cause it wouldn't work any other way.

IMO pressing two buttons 5 times is boring as heck skill needed aside. It wouldn't even feel like a combo at that point. The game would be literally handholding you through the correct buttons to press instead of you actually hitting the correct buttons yourself. I find it would be easier to just spam 3 1 1 1 1 1 / 2 2 2 2 2 3 while doing actual hard mechanics instead of 6 1 2 3 4 5 / 7 8 9 5 4 6. One has way more room for error the other one is autopilot. That's just me though. If they go through with this I doubt it would be optional.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Pressing a GCD button max. 3 times in a row is too hard? Lol, that is something every caster (Ruin3, Broil/Stone4, Fire4)

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Yeah I'm pretty sure healers find their dps "rotation" incredibly dull though.

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Originally Posted by LunaTsukihime

Sigh, looks like I have to agree to disagree with the two lala posters...

But seriously, the game suffers right now from skill bloat, even after the Stormblood changes.

Combining at least the combos into an auto-advancing slot would help alleviate the space problem.

It's not about copy pasting the whole thing into pve but it's improvements.

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Similar to how Aion does combos?

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

If your current rotation is 8-3-6-5-11/12-1-2-4-11/12 or simplier 1-2-3-4-5/6-7-8-9-5/6 your new one would be 1-2-2-2-3/4-5-5-5-3/4 and not just 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2- or whatever you imagine there.
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rotations include much more than just the combo, making an even bigger argument for making combos into one button like they should be.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Yeah I'm pretty sure healers find their dps "rotation" incredibly dull though.

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Because healers have nothing else... they don't press it 3 times then switch to other set of GCDs, while weaving in damage oGCDs (well, only a few)... they just spam one skill.

Rather look at BLM who presses Fire4 3-4 times before refreshing their timer with Fire1...

I mean, we can do it the other way round. Would it be a great, engaging change when instead of those repetitive Fire4 there was a combo of skills Fire4a, Fire4b, Fire4c, Fire4d you'd have to use in that order?

So instead of F3-F4-F4-F4-F4-F1 you do F3-F4a-F4b-F4c-F4d-F1?

Let's assume for now that BLM works that way.... would you also say merging those skills
F4a: 220 pot
F4b: 100 pot; 250 pot, if used after F4a
F4c: 100 pot; 270 pot, if used after F4b
F4d: 100 pot; 300 pot, if used after F4c

into

F4: 260 pot

would be a bad change? And this is even a step further than only combo-consolidation (which would only be merging F4a-d into one button, but keeping the different potencies depending on how many you have cast).


Or, since you mentioned healer Rotation... would healer dps rotation be better when they had to cast?
Stone4a: 150 pot
Stone4b: 100 pot; 200 pot, if used after F4a
Stone4c: 100 pot; 270 pot, if used after F4b

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

rotations include much more than just the combo, making an even bigger argument for making combos into one button like they should be.

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Exactly. The "lost" buttons 6,7,8,9 would best be replaced by new oGCDs, resulting in the same ammount of different GCDs you do (just with less buttons), but with 3-4 more oGCDs to weave into your rotation.

A smart oGCD rotation is harder than a smart GCD rotation, i.e. lowering the ammount of GCD buttons while getting more oGCD buttons would make the rotation always more engaging.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Similar to how Aion does combos?

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Aion, Tera, PSO2.

A number of games, i dont want to turn FF into one of them obviously, but again, it would be a measure against the skillbloating that will happen with the next level cap increase unless SE only adds traits and THAT outcry i don't wanna hear.

Right now we DO have kind of a sweet spot, yes, stuff is okay-ish even tho personally DRG and MNK feel like a bit of a cluster*beep* skills-wise.
But look forward, lets add 5 more skills in the next expansion, and then another 5, see where this leads ?

A screen full cluttered of hotbars over the actual gameplay, dont think that that will be much fun.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

3 times in a row is too hard? Lol

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I don't think you have any reason to have this attitude? Did I personally do something to you to make you offended enough to mock me over my personal issue with my hands hurting due to repetitive pressing of the same button?

No where did I say that pressing the buttons themselves is "hard". I only said that it is "harder on my hands to repetitively press the same button" which means it causes me more discomfort and eventual soreness the more often I have to press the same button repeatedly with no variation. This isn't something I can control since I can't just look at my hands and tell them "hey, I demand you stop hurting because reasons!" and it is why I prefer the current system and I even stated I may be the only one with this particular problem when it comes to my hands I don't know, but my opinion is my opinion and you aren't going to change it so too bad.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Even if they would force it...this is a rather weak argument

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What argument? There is no argument there; just my opinion. I am not using it to argue anything only sharing my opinion and why I feel the way I do.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

would be a bad change? And this is even a step further than only combo-consolidation (which would only be merging F4a-d into one button, but keeping the different potencies depending on how many you have cast).

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I would liken BLM to combo consolidation as something like Fire IV giving AF3 and also firestarter and Blizzard IV giving UI3. So instead of even bothering to use Fire/F3/Blizzard III now you can just spam Fire IV, firestarter is just automatic on the same button instead of having to reach for another button and hit Blizzard IV once and throw in the thunder. Or to a macro that has the entire fire rotation that you just hit x times, and one with the entire blizzard phase that you hit x times instead of separate buttons and just reacting to the ogcd/class mechanics on the side. Kind of weird comparing a mostly hard casting class with no combos to a melee with actual combos though. It doesn't really work. The consolidation would actually make melees closer to current BLM though.

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Exactly. The "lost" buttons 6,7,8,9 would best be replaced by new oGCDs, resulting in the same ammount of different GCDs you do (just with less buttons), but with 3-4 more oGCDs to weave into your rotation.

A smart oGCD rotation is harder than a smart GCD rotation, i.e. lowering the ammount of GCD buttons while getting more oGCD buttons would make the rotation always more engaging.

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Except now you didn't actually save any buttons, you added more buttons, eventually it would be a wash. Replacing existing buttons and doing the consolidation is way better than removing them then just adding skills. (The thread is about button bloat).

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Originally Posted by LunaTsukihime

Aion, Tera, PSO2.

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I have a pretty solid chunk of experience with Tera and PSO2 so I can say a few things about the systems there. In tera their hotkey system is very similar to ours and there's only one class that can basically be reduced to one or two buttons. However that class also functions very poorly if you were to play it like that compared to manually using each skill from your hotkeys. It's inefficient and only the newbie players who don't know any better tend to use it. The rest hit their hotkeys individually for better results.

In pso2, early on people (including myself) simply used multiple weapon pallates with different PAs on them instead of using the less accurate and flexible chained PA system in most cases. As the game expanded it became more of a hit to effectiveness for people to use chained PAs and with the addition of the 3 button hotkey setup users had the option of doing away with the chain system alltogether. From what I've seen from those I play with personally as well as those who record videos the majority of the population has embraced the 3 button setup because it's more effective and flexible than the chained skill setup.

In both cases, this setup is actively avoided due to inflexibility/inefficiency and given the option most opted for a system closer to what we already have. Just some food for thought. As far as FF goes, as long as it's optional I wouldn't particularly mind but they would need to do some sweeping changes to the classes or there would be issues with people discriminating against those using the simplified setup because they would be at an objective disadvantage in exchange for the simplicity.

Not for all skills, but I do want this to happen for the combo skills that go 1-2-3. I mean who presses the 3rd button without starting at 1? Machinist is probably the only one (since it requires procs) that will need to be changed the most. Maybe not next expansion, but I reckon at 6.0 we will lose more skills. Changing the combo skills into 1 button is the best option in keeping the current skills. I do not want to lose more fun skills.

Pressing 1-2-3 is not harder then pressing 1-1-1, so please lets not use that excuse, because its bullocks.