Actually, all games that feature a parser saw a steady and sure rise on general toxicity. WoW is a CLEAR example where the advent of parsers made the community MUCH less welcoming and inclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocal_Night
Hell, this game here was a much nicer place before ACT and FFLogs existed and became widespread throughout the community.
He wants to pinpoint who's the person with low DPS so he can KICK him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycow8me
That was and will always be the REAL reason behind people wanting SE to endorse parsing.
Just another thread asking for in-game parsing for ps4 users
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09-07-2017, 04:12 AMAlexionSkylark
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09-07-2017, 04:17 AMHyoMinParkPlease go back and actually read my post in its entirety. Personal parsers will not display the DPS of a group as a whole, and asking for people to post their personal parses in some public chat channel (like a Discord) for comprehensive analysis is a lot of unnecessary and extra work. Why add in all that when you can implement a group parser for content that calls for it, and have all the information readily available right there. I just can't fathom how you fail to see the convenience of such a feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycow8me
You talk about "real time" DPS numbers, but group parsers would STILL provide said realtime numbers, except with ALL of the party members. They would provide all the information a personal parser would, plus more, in content where said "more" matters.Quote:
Being able to see your own DPS realtime vs mechanics and gear changes is the best way to go about it is called "improvement". If at the end of the fight it could show even more statistics like your crits etc... Then all the better.
Group DPS is composed of individual DPS's. Your speaking of marginal situations like for example keeping a tank in tank stance so a healer could get off some extra dps at a certain part in a fight actually working out a little better "Group DPS". Yeah I get it, but that fails in comparison to personal parser for improving the DPS that matters real time. PS4 players receiving a number at the end of the fight does not actually help them in the way that a personal parser would.
*She. And you must be clairvoyant to know my intentions for wanting SE to condone parser use. You know, aside from never having partied with me, met me, spoke with me, or even interacted with me outside of this thread. Talk about "toxicity".... blindly judging others and making these sweeping generalizations is about as "toxic" as it gets.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark
For the record, the only time I kick people from parties is when they're being a jerk for literally no reason. I have never kicked on account of "low numbers" or to "stroke my own e-peen." I don't need that sort of validation in life, thanks. -
09-07-2017, 04:22 AMMycow8me
I read your post in its entirety, the problem is your trying to discredit the use of a personal parser when it obviously has uses in raid environment while claiming act is more helpful. The problem here is that your more concerned with analyzing a problem or finding the weakest link instead of overall individual player improvement. Act cannot do this realtime. Looking at charts and graphs is one thing, seeing it while its happening is another.
Sorry ma'am I'm done. I agree to disagree at this point. -
09-07-2017, 04:26 AMHyoMinParkBecause if you are in content with a party that continues to fail to meet enrage, sometimes you have to analyze the performance in such a way to find what's wrong, and that includes finding if there are any "weakest links" and working on focused improvement for that member, or replacing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycow8me
I never made any mentions about ACT specifically. I was talking about implemented group parsers compared to your implemented personal parser, which, since you mention ACT, can be configured to show just personal DPS. I'm not trying to get anyone to "agree" with me; I'm just trying to show players that this unnecessary hostile attitude that has been displayed by some of the anti-parser people in this thread, among others that have popped up on the forum in the past, is just as toxic than the few individuals that act like jerks, and use parsers to do so. -
09-07-2017, 04:31 AMLazaruzAnd this is a perfect capsule of why we cannot have a debate regarding parsing as a tool to improve your own performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Because while you claim to not have kicked people for "low numbers", I know another MMO where the late game scene is absolutely infested with that type of attitude, quite possibly in part because the developers gave everyone free reign to do it. And that game is WoW.
Perform bellow X number? Kicked and blacklisted
Perform bellow X class? Kicked and blacklisted
Just barely bellow the "max" output for your class? kicked and blacklisted
But dont think they'll just remove you quietly. People will make damn sure, and in great detail, that you know how much you "suck", and should quit playing.
And that is despite the fact that you still managed the content. Alot of people just get pissy because Ted who performed 500 bellow what's "ideal" maybe added 30 more seconds to the fight.
So forgive me for punishing a small but very vocal minority, when I've witnessed through experience that people in general cannot be trusted with something like a group parser, unless it's atleast under the condition of "dont get caught harassing people with it" -
09-07-2017, 04:33 AMJumperX
The level of toxiciting coming from this thread from "non-toxi" player and from "toxic" players. Oh wait. They are all humans and will have aome disagreementa and want to always impose their beliefs on someone else. Human nature. Even without parse I encountered horrible ppl and they were one of those so called nice ppl in the community. People don't behave the same woth everybody and every single day. If SE would be more involved with the in game interaction, people could actually mention about any harassment or unjust done to them instead of this debate that only have people trying to impose what they think it qill be better for the every single player.
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09-07-2017, 04:47 AMMycow8meNo I'm not content with a party that continues to fail to meet enrage but I'm also not content with finding the weakest link. We have different mindsets, that's all. I don't go around asking for DPS numbers or bother with others DPS. Implementing group parsers is cumbersome since things like act already exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
I'm trying to explain to you that individual player improvement should be prioritized or the ultimate goal of a parse, if you immediately start to analyze for the problem or "weakest link" among "group DPS" you are falling into the antiparser communities trap. You should strive for individual player improvement at their own discretion and a toggleable, realtime, dps parser is the best way to go about it. Again we disagree but its whatever at this point.
Edit: Honestly PS4 players have nothing, the thread should have stayed on topic for them. -
09-07-2017, 04:59 AMDRHaymakerThen SE (if you're quoting them) and you don't know what toxicity is. Blame is either shared or on an individual level, but there's always a reason. I'd rather know who is weak link, so we can find out if they're willing to fix whatever problem they have, than resent the group in general because I don't know who is under performing - that's closer to toxicity than "Don't call me out, bro". Stop thinking of every instance as a witch hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark
You're arguing semantics.Quote:
Most of the times people are not SLACKING, they simply are less skilled.
The game IS inclusive. Your problem isn't with the game though - your problem is a social one. And if you want to go down that road, the amount of shit that gets flung around in a group the instant someone sees Bonus is far more toxic.Quote:
And the game is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive.
Well... two things. First, has ever directly encouraged that saying "Git gud or git out". Second, I'm pretty sure there's been players reporting that GMs told them they can't punish someone that has a "different playstyle" when kicked due to low performance. They don't have to endorse it for players to be within their rights to kick you out if you're underperforming.Quote:
Kicking people from parties due to low performance never was and will never be endorsed by the devs. You can kiss that hope goodbye.
The idea that you should pay attention to your own rotation, CDs, AoEs, Positioning AND simultaneously pay attention to 7 other to make sure their doing their job, AND know said other jobs so you know if they're not doing something right is silly...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
Except it is, if you turn down the animations of other people and hide the debuffs of other people... also there's only so many buffs that will appear. And before you say "Well change it so you can then!", I could do that, but I'm positive there's those that can't, either for QoL reasons, or their system just isn't capable of handling multiple effects at the same time.Quote:
It's not hard to notice [...] or the DRG that's only using one combo rotation.
Why is it that stroking your own ego is the ONLY reason ANYONE would want to compare their DPS to others? Especially when there's multiple of one class? As much as people cry "Look at all those toxic parsers ruining the game!" they fail to reconginze their own elitist toxicity when they spew crap like ^this and "What, you can't pay attention to 20 different things? Maybe club penguin is more your speed".Quote:
And a personal parser would most deffinetely work if someone is just curious about their own DPS output, although I guess it wouldnt work if what you're actually interested in, is how your DPS compares to everyone else. A.k.a rubbing your e-peen
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09-07-2017, 05:00 AMTigerlilleyI actually agree with you. I'm not saying personal parsers are bad, I'm saying that they're not the solution to "people will use them to be mean" which is the only argument anti-parser people have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycow8me
In saying that as a dps player I do compare myself to others on FFlogs. Their numbers are often my goals and I know what to aim for. While personal parsing would help the levelling side of learning a class, community parsers are for end game. I think you and that other dude in here writing the novels are pretty much agreeing on the same thing. -
09-07-2017, 05:40 AMBourne_EndeavorHere's a thought. How about GMs do their job and suspend or ban these types of people? You cannot blame parses for WoW's apparent incompetent management. Regardlesss, you don't see that same attitude in FFXIV, and I can assure you someone will have ACT up for EX and Savage content. What happens instead if people silently kick or disband without specifically mentioning numbers. It's hardly unreasonable they don't want to carry players who aren't pulling their weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
While I do not disagree with the overall sentiment of prioritizing self improvement. It's, once again, not unreasonable to think there might be an issue when I'll nearly pull 5k on Samurai and a Monk can't break 3k. That tells me immediately something is quite wrong. Now I won't scream at them but I would wanting to link them a guide of some sort because that shouldn't be happening in Savage. Should I stay silent though and just do double the work to make up for their poor performance? I suppose so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycow8me