The Raid community as we know it

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Originally Posted by Kyt

If that's how people talk to each other, then that's how they talk to each other. It's not your right to dictate how people talk to each other. Some people actually just talk like that. My last quote is not unacceptable in a static where that is the preferred type of communication, and I'll stop you now before you say "that type of communication is not preferred by anyone in the world", because it quite obviously is. Me? no, I don't lead my raids like that. But it obviously works for people who are like that example being xeno and his group who are all close friends. It's not your right to tell them that how they do things is wrong.

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Rules of polite, civilized society demands that it is unacceptable. Though when people log on a game, get that veil of anonymity, they start to behave poorly. Some people dig that, fine, that's them--but the rest of us, it makes us uncomfortable, and drives us away from otherwise enjoyable content. I miss high level raiding, I really do, but the toxic environment, the hostility, the aggression, those aren't worth it to me, and I really don't think I'm the only one.

Raiding thrives on participation. Raiding will die out when participation levels drop too much. So why the raiding community is OK with ostracizing potential players is really baffling.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

If you have a healer who has the arrows pointing at them to stack, and the healer stops moving to let the DPS catch up, and half the DPS don't even move, who's at fault? If we keep failing the mechanic because half the party won't move, even after being asked twice, then that has to become a vote abandon because nothing is going to let that party even get past that phase.

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The healer.

If you have a stack mechanic and it's completely safe to run behind the boss, you do so. Expecting the melee DPS to disengage the boss and lose several GCDs worth of damage because you can't be bothered to run into range of them isn't their fault. Now if there's an aoe puddle or you're locked in place. That is a different scenario.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Seems like every time we have a thread about Raiders bringing toxic behavior outside their static safespace we inevitably have people looking at the lodestone to try and prove the other person hasn't cleared something. Raiders clearly do look at the parser sites as a reason to kick people, so let's not pretend it's not happening.

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The last time I saw anything remotely close to what you're describing was when someone was trying to tell other people that they were the best player with regards to their job, had the best melding plan for their gear and it was obvious it was the best because they were constantly out-DPSing other party members (even though, if I recall, they didn't use or have access to ACT), and was bragging about having cleared a12s multiple times, yet people could find no evidence to support their claims. If someone is going to brag about how they're the best at something or have the best melds or are constantly out-DPSing everyone else because they've cleared X content X amount of times, I expect evidence to back up said claims.

Same thing for when I am farming content and suddenly we can't queue in Duty Complete because there's someone with a bonus trying to sneak in. I expect people to provide evidence that they have cleared (primal totem, savage floor pages, weapons, gear, etc.).

However, that bragging was occurring here on this forum, so tell me how that is even remotely close to you saying people kick them out of parties in-game? Hyperbole doesn't help your arguments.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The healer.

If you have a stack mechanic and it's completely safe to run behind the boss, you do so. Expecting the melee DPS to disengage the boss and lose several GCDs worth of damage because you can't be bothered to run into range of them isn't their fault. Now if there's an aoe puddle or you're locked in place. That is a different scenario.

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Going to echo Bourne for the answer to your question. If the healer has a stack mechanic and can freely move into melee range where, more than likely, the majority of the party is going to be, then they should do so. It's a DPS loss to have melee and the OT disengage from the boss to stack with a ranged player because they can't be bothered to move in, especially if it's safe to do so.

Now, if the healer was stunned and marked for stack, then it would be up to the party to adjust accordingly, and they would be at fault.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Seems like every time we have a thread about Raiders bringing toxic behavior outside their static safespace we inevitably have people looking at the lodestone to try and prove the other person hasn't cleared something. Raiders clearly do look at the parser sites as a reason to kick people, so let's not pretend it's not happening.

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In general when people bring up logs it's for a reason. Basically what HyoMinPark said.

For example today someone joined a certain Discord revolved around class discussion, FF discussion and s***posting with no class role assigned to himself (which takes just a few seconds if he just read the rules) just advertising his stream, so naturally people were upset with him.

And he said this.

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i never needed to talk about my class because i know about the ones i like to play

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That's when someone posted a link to his logs which did not reflect favorably on him.

I honestly think you have a skewed perception of the raiding community, because in my opinion, the true elite are chill people. I'd call my friend one of them except he's not in a static; he plays mostly solo but he's definitely near the top of the playerbase when it comes to skill level. People have chimed in here where Xeno has been helpful in PF and whatnot. The way he acts on stream is probably because he's with his friends and as a stream he needs to entertain people and some people like that sort of persona.

BTW I just tried listening to that episode of the podcast and stopped before that guy gave me actual cancer.
Is he actually a 1% world class raider anyway? he looked like he's just a real full-of-himself obnoxious streamer with a bad attitude.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

BTW I just tried listening to that episode of the podcast and stopped before that guy gave me actual cancer.
Is he actually a 1% world class raider anyway? he looked like he's just a real full-of-himself obnoxious streamer with a bad attitude.

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How does he have a bad attitude? He plays with his friends and so on. In fact he helps a lot of random groups with clears as well and has done a lot for the community for those who tanks as well.
I think he's a good guy. Is he blunt? Sure but being blunt is sometimes good, it's in fact very good for people to know how bad they do or not. If I see someone screw up and I know who it is, I will call them out. I wont brush it off and pretend it's fine, especially if they screw up been over 5 times a row. It's fine to fail but when you do it ''most'' or ''all the time''.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

...become a vote abandon because nothing is going to let that party even get past that phase.

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The "raid community" doesn't do raids with randos until they have it on farm and the loot lockout is removed.

Like, is it really so scary to get Xeno or another one of his ilk in faceroll content like Omega normal? Chances are, they aren't even going to say anything to you. They might talk shit about you on stream or wordlessly kick you, but that is probably the extent of it...and that seems REALLY mild and nowhere near as traumatic as the people in this thread are making it out to be.

Basically, if you aren't doing extreme primals or savage Omega, your fears are pretty much irrational and unfounded. Very few people give any shits about your sub-par performance in an expert roulette, including these oh-so-scary "elitists."

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

BTW I just tried listening to that episode of the podcast and stopped before that guy gave me actual cancer.
Is he actually a 1% world class raider anyway? he looked like he's just a real full-of-himself obnoxious streamer with a bad attitude.

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An accurate question to answer to your question would be, "are all casuals who post on a forum about a group of people they dislike really the sort to turn a life-altering illness into a memetic rhetoric?".

If you're going to knee-jerk with a "everyone knows it's a joke" then perhaps you've found your answer about Xeno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QsDzan8oEg&t=2259s he was on this pod cast as well. and he did mention this forum. Just going to leave this here

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

An accurate question to answer to your question would be, "are all casuals who post on a forum about a group of people they dislike really the sort to turn a life-altering illness into a memetic rhetoric?".

If you're going to knee-jerk with a "everyone knows it's a joke" then perhaps you've found your answer about Xeno.

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Precisely.

What is more crass, talking crap with your friends that you raid with (i.e. play a video game with) or making casual quips that make light of a horrible life altering and often life ending disease?

As someone that spent their last holiday season in a hospice care facility watching a family member waste away and die from cancer, I'm inclined to say the latter.

Cancer is horrible and is no joking matter.