Studying The Blade- The SAM DPS Guide

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

2) There are quite a few top (95%+) SAM with +1500 Sks. Again, I'm not to stack that but it's an alternate build people are working on. High uptime is needed or you lose dps so it's actually only top SAM that can pull it off in progression anyway.

3) Most of the top SAM parses use the 3 Sen opener if you check it. It isn't as great for TA but it works just as well for Embolden. It spikes and then lulls at 3 mins but lines up better for future raid cooldowns (including TA). The differences between the two even out fairly quickly even taking those CDs into account.

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2.) I've looked over every NA player working from parse #40 and going down on Susanno. Not 1 so far (that is actually in sam gear) is going SS. Not 1. So your theory on 95%+ is a stretch at best.

3.) It does work for embolden if your rdm is holding it for you to line up. Which sacrifices raid wide dps for your cd's to line to up. With a 1 sen you have a midare and guren at the start of embolden. Sure the rest of the fight you can line them up but on the opener you lose a good chunk of dmg.

I'm not telling anyone how to play their class but I won't sit by and watch others tell the general public false information. No matter how SS is "weighted" it's not the route to go currently. Really don't even see that changing in this expac. It may move to being crit heavy over DH but it won't be SS.

Ah haven't run Susano with sks focus yet.

Also that's not my best one, and I have no idea why fflogs doesn't display it up front, but my best is 4082 on July 16th. It's the third kill in that batch @7:58.

Looking to update Susano parses with sks ASAP and will try to remember to reference here.

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

2.) I\\'ve looked over every NA player working from parse #40 and going down on Susanno. Not 1 so far (that is actually in sam gear) is going SS. Not 1. So your theory on 95%+ is a stretch at best.

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Your evidence seems right for sks being fringe. It\\'s sort of why I\\'m stacking it. Memespeed (boxer), me, another one whose name I forget and a growing number of us from the balance discord are experimenting with the stat as far as possible. Trying to break the 2.00 gcd. It\\'s very experimental and newly discovered, so that\\'s probably why it\\'s not appearing almost anywhere on fflogs. No one runs it. Most are running off of 3.0 substat optimization.

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Originally Posted by ArtificialxSky

Your evidence seems right for sks being fringe. It\\'s sort of why I\\'m stacking it. Memespeed (boxer), me, another one whose name I forget and a growing number of us from the balance discord are experimenting with the stat as far as possible. Trying to break the 2.00 gcd. It\\'s very experimental and newly discovered, so that\\'s probably why it\\'s not appearing almost anywhere on fflogs. No one runs it. Most are running off of 3.0 substat optimization.

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I'd agree that if you can get the GCD low enough that it may prove to be a good increase. But I don't think that number is currently obtainable without destroying all other stats which would hurt dps as much as it would help if not more. If it was possible to get the GCD to 2.0 or below while maintaining 1300ish DH/Crit that would be worth testing. Hell even going DH/det and letting crit fall would be worth testing. But again I don't think that's possible. Actually, if my math is right you would need 3340 SS to make that happen and that is not even close to attainable

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

2.) I've looked over every NA player working from parse #40 and going down on Susanno. Not 1 so far (that is actually in sam gear) is going SS. Not 1. So your theory on 95%+ is a stretch at best.

3.) It does work for embolden if your rdm is holding it for you to line up. Which sacrifices raid wide dps for your cd's to line to up. With a 1 sen you have a midare and guren at the start of embolden. Sure the rest of the fight you can line them up but on the opener you lose a good chunk of dmg.

I'm not telling anyone how to play their class but I won't sit by and watch others tell the general public false information. No matter how SS is "weighted" it's not the route to go currently. Really don't even see that changing in this expac. It may move to being crit heavy over DH but it won't be SS.

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Your methodology is full of assumptions here.
You seem to be checking Susano Ex runs then looking for those players on the lodestone to check their build, hoping:
1) They're even on their SAM
2) Their build is the same as when they did Susano Ex

You even compared Tandry to Bun Mi and assumed Tandry was even using an Sks build at the time of Susano. They're in completely different percentiles regardless of build.

I've seen high percentile parses for Susano EX but most of those have switched because of Sks builds require high uptime so its not as safe for progression. I've said that at the start. I could look for them a when I get home.

You seem to be full of agendas without any objectivity. You made a rant about Stat equality but made a rigid statement about Sks without explaining the other factors.
Btw, did you notice anything about Bun Mi's profile? Other than them wearing pants and feet with no stats.
It goes against your previous rant, they went straight DH>Det in melds.
How many high percentile SAM are you finding with equalized stats btw?

The numbers are still all being worked out for SAM, undoubtedly, but somehow you already have all the answers and are set in your ways. About equal stats, about low Sks and about the 1 Sen vs 3 Sen opener.

Btw for the last, 3 Sen doesn't miss Trick Attack's window completely and gains more Kenki afterwards. Embolden doesn't really need saving for it to work with 3 Sen, raid CDs shouldn't be popped on the first GCD anyway.

One Sen works better with TA, undoubtedly, but you are the one spreading misinformation here to any SAM who may not be able to lower their Sks. Under 940 or you're screwed - no they have an alternative that is basically even with the 1 Sen even with TA. If you're going to discuss something, you should regard all the conditions and there are a lot.

We do know that Sks technically has the highest weight for all the stats, but it is a complicated stat which is why DH>Det build is safer right now. It is affected by downtime in ways the others aren't. You can acknowledge both those things at the same time.

Personally, I use both openers depending on the encounter and recently we had a comp change so that affected it too. Also, just so you know, I don't even run a pure Sks build, I prioritize DH over it.

I'm not an advocate for anything because
1) The numbers are still being worked out
2) There are a million factors you should consider, including your team comp, the fight you're in and even your own playstyle or skill level.

You seem to have a much more narrow view.

I've been theorycrafting MMOs for nearly 2 decades. Unlike you, I don't wait for someone else to post numbers. I figure them out for myself. It's the reason I've been running DH/Det since day 2 while most of you were still trying to figure it out.

Your claiming that people are switching stats to run Susanno because of 'low uptime' but every fight has some period of downtime. And no one is going to fully remeld their gear, or swap gear this early into an expac/progression, based on fights. I said I was looking them up to see their gearing simply to prove a point. They could have swapped from when those logs where made, sure. Unlikely but sure it's possible.

If you choose to not listen to what I say then that's your call but everything I've said on SAM since day 2 of this expac is the exact same things that the rest of the theorycrafting community is saying now. The numbers aren't being worked out they are already listed plain as day. What you are waiting on is someone to tell you exactly what to do, what gear to get, and how to meld it. You want someone else to play your toon for you too?

Gearing has absolutely nothing to do with team comp or skill level. You could be the newest of the noobs and you will gear the same way because gearing differently isn't going to change anything or help you be better. Having a different comp isn't going to change your gearing. Having stacked SS isn't going to make a difference whether you have a BLM or a RDM in your group. You're doing nothing but spouting off nonsense now.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

You seem to be full of agendas without any objectivity. You made a rant about Stat equality but made a rigid statement about Sks without explaining the other factors.
Btw, did you notice anything about Bun Mi's profile? Other than them wearing pants and feet with no stats.
It goes against your previous rant, they went straight DH>Det in melds.
How many high percentile SAM are you finding with equalized stats btw?

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To address this directly ...
Did I notice he had no crit melds? Yea I did. Did you notice his crit is even with his Det? So he doesn't need to meld crit ...

How many am I finding following the pattern I noted earlier this morning? Every one of them.

Any more brain busters?

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

To address this directly ...
Did I notice he had no crit melds? Yea I did. Did you notice his crit is even with his Det? So he doesn't need to meld crit ...

How many am I finding following the pattern I noted earlier this morning? Every one of them.

Any more brain busters?

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They all meld DH > Det. It's hard to completely drop a stat and no one wants to particularly. Every one of them doesn't follow the pattern you have which is a lot more even. What they meld is what they made a conscious decision on right now since there's not a ton of gear options to min-max in the first week.
Also, you don't know his ratio if he was actually wearing pants and boots with stats, you only that he used the basic priority system everyone does.

But hey, I won't tell you how to play.

You're right I don't know what he did. I went to the first one that was in sam gear and that's who I linked. I could've linked a ton more but I didn't.

Majority of people running sam right now will be melding DH > Det and there is no skill to completely drop. As I said earlier, every skill goes up in value the more you have of another. Dropping any of them completely is a terrible idea. But yes you can gear to keep your stats where you want them. It's a choice in how you gear. If you want a lot of SS then you can do it. If you don't then you can do that too.

My entire point is that all of this information has been out there for weeks. Yea people are experimenting to see what else they can come up with but that's all it is is an experiment. The SS needed to make it viable right now is unattainable this tier. The most of any 1 stat you will be able to get to is maybe 2100. You'd need over 3k SS to even start to make it even a viable option and even then it would need to be highly tested. Since FF has no real sim program all of these 'stat weights' are nothing more than people testing things out on their own and relaying their findings. None of it is set in stone.

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

You're right I don't know what he did. I went to the first one that was in sam gear and that's who I linked. I could've linked a ton more but I didn't.

Majority of people running sam right now will be melding DH > Det and there is no skill to completely drop. As I said earlier, every skill goes up in value the more you have of another. Dropping any of them completely is a terrible idea. But yes you can gear to keep your stats where you want them. It's a choice in how you gear. If you want a lot of SS then you can do it. If you don't then you can do that too.

My entire point is that all of this information has been out there for weeks. Yea people are experimenting to see what else they can come up with but that's all it is is an experiment. The SS needed to make it viable right now is unattainable this tier. The most of any 1 stat you will be able to get to is maybe 2100. You'd need over 3k SS to even start to make it even a viable option and even then it would need to be highly tested. Since FF has no real sim program all of these 'stat weights' are nothing more than people testing things out on their own and relaying their findings. None of it is set in stone.

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I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But what are you using if not your own stat weights to consider Sks's value so low.
At 320 ilvl, Dervy gave Sks the highest value out of all sub stats. This comes with a caveat that it's only that valuable in a vacuum.
His model is the one the FF melee community has come to trust over the years and is much more advanced than the usual theorycrafter's testing/experimentation. Of course, that's not to say he's infallible but I'm more inclined to believe his math.

It's not that Sks is the best stat and it won't be the best if you destroy your other stats most likely. However, in the obtainable 320 gear perfect rotation and 100% uptime, it seems like it will come ahead of the rest. Add boss mechanics and mistakes, then maybe it's not great.

I'm just saying that dynamic is worth acknowledging. Not that ppl should stack Sks.