Are role actions a nerf?

One time again... you can't decide now if a skill will be mandatory. Period.
You can't evaluate the toolkit of any job at this point.

Why do you even think they didn't name Lucid Dream Shroud of Saints? They did name Cleric Cleric and E4E is still E4E and Esuna is Esuna.
Same with Divine Seal. Why do you think those are renamed?

Do we still have a skill named Shroud of Saints and Divine Seal and what does they do? Maybe you don't run in mp issues if following a certain job mechanic correctly?

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Why do you even think they didn't name Lucid Dream Shroud of Saints? They did name Cleric Cleric and E4E is still E4E and Esuna is Esuna.
Same with Divine Seal. Why do you think those are renamed?

Do we still have a skill named Shroud of Saints and Divine Seal and what does they do? Maybe you don't run in mp issues if following a certain job mechanic correctly?

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Esuna's icon was blue and was changed to a blue version of the icon for scholar's "Leeches" skill that does the same thing. Lucid Dream's icon is a purple version of Shroud of Saints' icon, and AST's equivalent skill Luminiferous Aether is purple. And Lucid Dream has the exact same effect as Shroud of Saints, but with a longer duration (Luminiferous Aether has a longer duration). The icon and effects are just the two skills mushed together. As for the name, maybe the Japanese name of Shroud of Saints is something more Whitemagey and they wanted a new skill name to better fit all three healers. I don't know why they name things the way they do.


And it's not up to me if other people follow mechanics correctly, I can only heal them if they mess up.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Can you recall every specific encounter that has a debuff you can remove and which doesn't? Can you guarantee you wont get one of the ones requiring cleansing in a roulette? Is your group expected to wait for your cooldown to swap into Esuna when you end up in content that does have debuffs to remove? Which skill are you going to replace with Esuna when you do swap? Will you swap at the beginning of a dungeon that has debuffs or just at specific fights within that dungeon?

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Esuna is a high need skill but that doesn't make it mandatory. i would not hang myself if it wasn't slotted for Expert Roulette right now. you can cleanse the Archer DoTs in Baelsar's Wall and that's it (you can also just heal through them which is what i do most of the time anyway). In general roulette I would probably have it. lots of people also farm in this game, they do like 10 runs in a row of the same thing.

if you're farming a Primal with nothing to Esuna you would skip it. do you have to know off the top of your head? no, but after the first run you can probably take it off. so this makes it something that's absolutely not mandatory.

it doesn't matter what skill you want to replace Esuna with, the problem that you raised was that it's an illusion of choice in which all/most of the skills were pre-determined for you, and that's not the case. the fight might determine some of it but no player is locked into the same choices all the time.

You already covered Lucid Dream, E4E as not being mandatory. Protect as you also acknowledged is not mandatory for both healers to have in 8 man groups. it doesn't have to be static groups, it can be in PF, it can be in DF during the loading the circle.

only 1 of the 5 choices is always 100% of the time made for you. that's pretty good.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Snip.

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Most of your complaints are cases of confusing "Nice to have" with "Necessary to have." Healer DpS is nice but not always necessary.

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Swiftcast:
Not only does it need to help raise but it is REQUIRED to have as a SCH, a MUST, ast and whm not as much but if bad things happen and I need to heal more though Dissipation, well it is a need.

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You may need to reexamine your Dissipation use, and you don't need to swiftcast summon at the start of a duty.

It is nice but is not required despite your belief that it is required.

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Esuna is a need, paralyses means DPS loss. healing though poison is a DPS loss. I wanted leeches at 18 not 40, because of these issues.

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Not every fight inflicts esunable status effects. Only reason you really want esuna before 40 is because of how esunable Dot heavy Thousand Maws is. Most other DoTs and Status effects are fairly easy to ignore. A fair few Healers have ignored esunable status effects on me to focus more on their own damage.

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Protect is a need, less damage taken means more room for DPS.

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Most healers overheal by more than 10%. You won't be losing that much dps from not having it. It will only be needed when the different in damage between having and not having is the difference between someone dying and someone not dying.

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Funny how you label eye for eye as more useful then above, but is a need in large pulls regardless.

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As a tank I rarely have trouble in large pulls when a healer/summoner fails to use Eye for an Eye on me. Also I said Eye for an Eye will be "useful" not "more useful than other abilities."

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yes, they are all useful. But we can't have them all anymore. And since I won't know in advance if people are going to take lots of damage or die and eat up all my mp, I NEED to be prepared with Swiftcast, Lucid Dream, and Divine Seal.

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Which is why your in general selection might look like this:

• Swiftcast
• Lucid Dream
• Appreciation
• Protect
• Esuna

And swap in the other 5 based on your knowledge of what will be useful in the content you are doing.

My general tanking set is likely to be the following.

• Low blow
• Interject
• Either Provoke or Ultimatum depending on player preference
• Rampart
• Convalescence

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Protect and a cleanse effect, esuna, or whatever, is a standard for healers in like every mno in existence? (or least in ff) It shouldn't be filling up a limited list of "bonus" abilities.

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"Standard" does not equal "always needed." The 5 slot limit of the Cross Role system is more about button bloat limiting than preventing use of common abilities.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

And it's not up to me if other people follow mechanics correctly, I can only heal them if they mess up.

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I didn't mean "You save MP by others following mechanics".

I meant "Maybe you don't have mp issues if you follow one of your inherent job mechanics".
Like a SCH using Aetherflow and ED now (and with high chance in SB, too).
WHM has freecures. What if the flower-thingie or other skills evolve around something like that?

Maybe if your good at your job you only need the role based mp reg for things were you go full out on holy or with high dps uptime?

I mean, am I the only one expecting WHM getting much rework in their base toolkit, like PLD does?

"WHM will just lose SoS and will be screwed always if not slotting the role-based, regardless of content and setup." Aye.

I think people are trying to defeat the original purpose of the Cross-Class system. In my earlier post on the 1st page I pointed out how nearly ALL jobs for ARR HW had their cross-classes in such a way that only 5 or 6 were useful most of the time. And for the Jobs with 6 viable choices it was mostly down to preference between minor defensive cooldowns.

People are angry because we now have choices that can matter, compared to now where there's little thought put into your CC most of the time.

I see the xclass skills are more or less mandatory, the real choice to do is how slot them and what put first when in low content (aka, some slot locked).

I'd chosen cleric as first and protect second, but still I see people wait for protect in sastasha lv16 after all of them see I've turned on cleric stance. Sure, I can protect then run thru all the menus and swap swap out and come back (in the while, tank is likely to first boss and locking me out XD). But.... Sashasha.... I can fill your hp bar healing with cleric still on... what you want protect for, there...

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

People are angry because we now have choices that can matter, compared to now where there's little thought put into your CC most of the time.

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I'm more angry because it's choices between skills I already have and use, rather than all new things. They're chopping off all of my fingers and then letting me sew whichever 5 I want back on. And I definitely need both my thumbs and both index fingers so I really only get to choose one finger that I want.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I'm more angry because it's choices between skills I already have and use, rather than all new things. They're chopping off all of my fingers and then letting me sew whichever 5 I want back on. And I definitely need both my thumbs and both index fingers so I really only get to choose one finger that I want.

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That is hyperbole and as I have pointed out earlier you do not need the things you swear you "need" as much as you think you do.

We the game launches you may actually realize that your must haves are not as must have as you currently believe.