New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

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Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltzkin

Since there are none of the current ones I enjoy I was going to give Machinist a go. With that I would have liked to actually have fun and feel cool doing the storyline and considering how much of the storyline that is actually just go fetch and run around wasting your time earning some exp would have been nice too. As it is I would have to go on a job that is already max to earn no exp and play on a job I don't enjoy just to be able to get to the point where I can get a job I want to try.

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Few people will be in your case, having a level 50 character for a very long time and having not advanced the main story line. A lot of content needs you to have ended the main story line (Praetorium), some trials belong to the main story line in more advanced places, some dungeons too. No Trials roulette, no expert roulette (so the best way to get poetic tomes is lost). There are many reasons to go advancing the story as it goes appearing, most people do it.

Anyway the fact that new jobs require the player to complete the main story up to 2.55 does not seem so important. A new player will have to start from level 1 in one of the classes, level up to 30, etc. It seems unlikely that at level 30 they would change classes whithout knowing the first one yet.

It could have been otherwise, be able to start from level 1 in any class (rogue included), but it will not be like that, it seems.

When the expansion arrives many people will be divided between advancing the story line and leveling their main job or jobs to 60 soon, getting better gear, learning the new actions and adapting their play to them, accessing the new raids etc., and leveling a new job, learning to use it and eventually using it in the new end-game content when they arrive to it.

Are people upset because this is the first MMORPG to actually have a main storyline and they don't understand why they are suppose to follow along the story?

Every other MMORPG has never had an overarching story, this is the first one. Why don't people realise that this game is not WoW, WoW has never done anything like this "gating" but then WoW has never had a proper storyline. This is the first MMORPG I know that has story linking it with the expansion, the other story linking WoW with its' expansions was lore from previous games and novels.

EDIT: the reason I don't mention other MMOs is because I am not certain of them. I cannot speak of GW and I stopped playing SWTOR well before any expansion was released(there was no hint of a grand overarching storyline in that game though).

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Originally Posted by Calis

What bothers me is that ARR/2.0 is not automatically bundled with HW/3.0. I don't mind that new players have to start at lv1 and go through 2.0 content first, the game is not that long anyway if you don't count all the side quests and random things you could do outside of story, but it would be really confusing if a new player picks up HW thinking he could play the game with that, not realizing he needed to get ARR first. I guess it's fine if the package explicitly says it's an expansion and that it would require getting ARR.

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I'm sure it will be written on the backside of the box

honestly, i always assumed it would be this way anyway. Especially since this allows them to reference 2.55 events in the job quests for the new jobs. it also makes sense for why they're handled differently from the basic classes/jobstones.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Are people upset because this is the first MMORPG to actually have a main storyline and they don't understand why they are suppose to follow along the story? Every other MMORPG has never had an overarching story, this is the first one.

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FFXI did. The original "main scenario" in XI culminated with the final cutscene of Dynamis-Xarcabard, a difficult large scale raid. Each nation in FFXI had its own main scenario quest, and each expansion had a separate story. HOWEVER! The only requirement to start the expansion content (including new jobs) was purchasing the content and having a character at level 30. (You could actually enter some of the zones earlier than that by completing a quest that was intended for level 30s early.) A level 99 character who completed the expansions saved the world a different way each time.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Are people upset because this is the first MMORPG to actually have a main storyline and they don't understand why they are suppose to follow along the story?

Every other MMORPG has never had an overarching story, this is the first one. Why don't people realise that this game is not WoW, WoW has never done anything like this "gating" but then WoW has never had a proper storyline. This is the first MMORPG I know that has story linking it with the expansion, the other story linking WoW with its' expansions was lore from previous games and novels.

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Plenty of other MMOs have an overarching story (yes, even WOW). However they also appreciate that a significant number of players don't give a crap about the story, and would rather the NPCs just shut up and tell them how many space moose they need to kill for the next quest, and that from a purely gameplay perspective it's horrible design to force people to do excessive amounts of story quests, because when they're put up as an obstacle to content people will resent them and see them as a chore. MMO is probably the worst genre to try and make story-oriented because so many players are only interested in having a conveyor belt of shiny loot pinatas to have a whack at.

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Originally Posted by Calis

I actually think it's really cool that SE decided to cater to their pre-existing playerbase than create content specifically for potential players who might only be interested in what HW has to offer than the game as a whole. As a paying subscriber, I think it's reassuring that they were looking at us when they made this new content. Because we're the ones who will get most out of this expansion.

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You shouldn't think that it's cool. Anyone who seriously cares about this game and wants it to succeed should be in favor of decisions that ENCOURAGE new players to join, not turn them away. A successful MMO is one that brings in a consistent supply of new players, not at the EXPENSE of existing players, but in addition to supporting existing players.

An expansion should have a mixture of things that appeal to old players AND new. The new jobs are probably the biggest "shiny" the expansion has to offer, the most important attactor for new players. They do not yet know anything about the story, so adverts like "Continue the story into Ishgard with the Dragonsong War!" aren't going to mean much to them. When deciding whether or not to buy the expansion, they're going to react to things like, "Play as the new Au Ra race!" ("Dragon people? Awesome, I'm SO picking this game up!") or "Choose from three exciting new jobs!" ("Dark Knight? I'm totally going to play like I'm Batman with a greatsword, this is so cool!")

Right now, the ability to play as an Au Ra is the only attractor left to the expansion, and I'm not convinced that THAT might not end up gated as well. This is not a good plan, if SE wants to sell the expansion to new players - and if they don't want to sell the expansion to new players, what on earth is wrong with them? Do they hate making money hand over fist, or something?

As a player invested in this game that wants to see it continue to flourish, I very much disagree with the decision to gate the "shiny" bits along with the storyline bits. There are many, MANY ways that they could have made the shinies accessable (Astrologian guild based in the Observatorium is a good example) while still gating a lot of the rest of the content. "Come for the Dark Knight, stay for the story!"

I am BY NO MEANS suggesting that players should be allowed to "bypass" the main scenario and still enjoy everything that Heavensward has to offer. Heavensward continues the storyline, and it makes no sense to start a book in the middle. I get that and respect that. There's no reason, though, that getting to the middle of the book should be necessary before you can do ANYTHING AT ALL in the new expansion. New players should be encouraged to explore the new content, but for new players who bought the expansion because, hey, it'd be SO AWESOME to play the game through as a gun-slingin' machinist, the current situation is a kick in the teeth, one that may discourage them from buying the game, or cause them to unsubscribe once they understand how daunting the main scenario is.

And the main scenario IS daunting. For all the players insisting, "Oh, you can play all the way though in four days, tops," I call bull. Perhaps if you devoted every waking moment to the game, and clicked through every cutscene without reading, you might be able to pull something like that off, but most are only able to play a few hours per day, and not everyone is going to want to power through the story when they can, you know, appreciate it and enjoy it. On top of that, they might want to explore the world, try out crafting, so on and so forth. There's more to the game than main scenario - but if they want to enjoy the game as the shiny job they saw on the box, that's what they're stuck with.

Heavensward, as it stands, is decidedly newbie-unfriendly. It could have been made newbie-friendly with SO little effort, that it boggles the mind that SE has decided on the path that it has.

Heck, they could even have thrown open the gates to Ishgard with only a token effort, all while STILL protecting the lore of the game! Take as an example, Altepa Desert in Final Fantasy XI. This was a zone introduced by the Rise of the Zilart expansion. Initially, the only way to access it is through a gate in the starter town of Bastok. If you don't have the expansion, the guard at that gate tells you, "It's too dangerous to go beyond this gate." If you DO have the expansion, the guard instead says, "It's dangerous beyond this gate, but adventurers are being given special dispensation. Would you like to go through?" The same COULD have been done for Heavensward: "Outsiders are forbidden to enter Ishgard!" upon purchose of the expansion changes to, "Until recently, outsiders were forbidden from entering Ishgard, but in these dire times the decision has been made to allow adventurers to assist in the war with the dragons. You may pass, and godspeed!"

You, the Adventurer, are special, after all - many rules and customs in the game don't apply to you! There might not be much you can DO in Ishgard as a lowbie, and there'll be a paucity of quests until you get through the Main Scenario, but you'll be able to see the areas, unlock the jobs, possibly unlock a few of the new dungeons - maybe even unlock Alexander, as there's no real reason that has to be tied to the Main Scenario. This COULD have been - but no. Everything is gated behind 30+ hours of work. This may have been the decision made, but just as was the case with Death Knight in WoW, I believe the developers will come to realize that it was a mistake, and one they won't repeat in the future.

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Originally Posted by JimboTCB

Plenty of other MMOs have an overarching story (yes, even WOW).

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Depends when you started playing, in the beginning there is no story. Maybe for Wrath of the Lich King and the latest expansions.

I'm sure this has been said ,but I skipped a lot of pages of crying,

The story doesn't take long at all. Seriously. My roommate has had the game for around a month, just under, and just hit lvl 50 today. And I've only helped her with like 2 dungeons, she's been breezing through like nothing. So there's no excuse to why someone shouldn't be able to finish story.

I have a 2nd character that I'm almost to 40 with because I want her as my war/drk character, and I started her about 2 weeks ago. I'm gonna finish the Story, again, to do it. And it's really easy

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

What facts am I ignoring? You clearly don't understand the purpose of a clarification to an original statement.

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You seem to be paying sufficient attention to the facts that matter.

Fact: Ishgard cannot be accessed without clearing Steps of Faith, which has several prerequisites.

Fact: The new jobs are accessed upon entering Ishgard

Fact: Owning Heavensward will grant immediate access to Ishgard content. No 'Heavensward Main Questline' is necessary to clear in order to proceed to Ishgard.

Therefore: 'ARR Main Questline' is a prerequisite to enter Ishgard, and 'Heavensward Main Questline' is not.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

A successful MMO is one that brings in a consistent supply of new players, not at the EXPENSE of existing players, but in addition to supporting existing players.

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This is correct, but for the wrong agenda. NEW players. Who have a rite of passage to access exclusive content. Gating is a very important function to keep population spread out and healthy.