Fix Sumnmoner

Because without Cleric Stance, both healers will offer nothing outside healing. Sure, SCH DoTs may deal more per tick but other than that, they only have Ruin I/II, Bane and Shafowflare which isn't that game-breaking. SMNs, otoh, has other things to do like Fester... not to mention that their egis actually deal damage(that's an extra 100+ dps added to your existing dps... shocking). I would kill just to let my fairy b****-slap my enemies every once in a while when healing isn't really needed.

Underwhelming!? I wouldn't trade that underwhelming animation to let's say amp it to be as annoying as 3 caster LB3s casting one after the other.

I can't tell if this is a troll thread or not.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

... specializing in Massive AoE Bursts with solid Single Target

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You've just described a black mage.

Ok wait, I have a solution. Stay with me here.

Step 1: Purchase label maker.
Step 2: Reroll Lalafell. You'll see why in a moment.
Step 3: Pick THM as your base class.
Step 4: Use label maker to print 'Summoner' label.
Step 5: Affix label to the spot on your monitor where your class shows up.
Step 6: Level THM until you get your chocobo companion quest. Treat this as a class quest.
Step 7: Continue leveling until you can summon your chocobo into battle
Step 8: Buy at least 9999 greens so you never have to worry about them again.
Step 9: Summon your chocobo. THIS IS YOUR SUMMON. It is much bigger than you (because you are a lalafell). Chocobos have been summons in past games, so it fits the theme. Your chocobo can tank, heal, and dps to varying degrees. It has many abilities on various cooldowns. Also like past summons, it mostly does its own thing once you've spawned it. It is the perfect summon and the only one you will ever need.
Step 10: Get the BLM job crystal and continue leveling to 50. You'll receive flare and the third tier of elemental spells. This is your solid single target and massive aoe.
Step 11: Summon non-combat pet. This is your level 50 'summoner' perk that lets you temporarily have two summons out at once. Despawn this pet once you think enough time has passed.
Step 12: Submit bug reports that pet is bugged and cannot enter instances or raids with you.
Step 13: Wait until SE fixes the bug.
Step 14: You're done!

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Originally Posted by Viviza

Ok wait, I have a solution. Stay with me here.

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oh god I can start seeing this forum getting filled with threads like give blm more dots and new pets now because it's not op enough

This is why we can't have civil discussion about making reasonable adjustments to summoner. :(

Tweaks on existing abilities are done when if it really needs to. An overhaul is needed when such tweaks barely makes any difference. The adjustment to mp consumption for Ruin I/II favors SMN more than SCH. It didn't make SCH stronger with it but it sure made SMN squeeze in a few more punches before literally crying out for MB. Some people call to drastic measures like overhauling the class thinking as if the job is already finished and no more abilities will be added. We are assured that future abilities will be focused more on the jobs rather than the classes. For the lore junkies, such as myself, it is still open for new advances such as being able to call forth stronger versions of our egis(wishful thinking). Whatever could those be, I let SE do it.

It's not that we cannot have civil discussions on how to adjust the summoner, it's how people tend to react in such a manner that what we have as of the moment is final. In fact, we're very far from it. A lot of things will still happen. I guess this isn't just SMN-specific but applies to every job. That's why most of us speculate of what's to come. It's not that we're calling for an overhaul.

Speaking for myself, there are pre-existing skills (i.e. the Egi) and certain system design choices that could use adjustment to make them a bit more future proof. With that said, there is always the prospect of new abilities being added to further define the job, and perhaps even find a middleground for people who would like to see small changes, and those who say "it's fine. if you don't like it, don't play it."

However, there are certain individuals who frequent this messageboard, making absurd suggestions, changing their opinion and backpedalling so often, I'm at a loss for a suitable metaphor to describe said behavior. For a lack of a better term, I would call it troll bait. But we all know how avoiding said bait works on a discussion board, and I don't see thoughtful discussing taking place with it littered across every thread that makes mention of summoner.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

However, there are certain individuals who frequent this messageboard, making absurd suggestions, changing their opinion and backpedalling so often, I'm at a loss for a suitable metaphor to describe said behavior. For a lack of a better term, I would call it troll bait. But we all know how avoiding said bait works on a discussion board, and I don't see thoughtful discussing taking place with it littered across every thread that makes mention of summoner.

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We could ignore them. I've seen a few reasonable suggestions in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

We could ignore them. I've seen a few reasonable suggestions in this thread.

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I personally feel that we need a Dislike button that hides the post after x amount of dislikes, similar to WoW's forums. Helps hide the shitposts and other such rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

We could ignore them. I've seen a few reasonable suggestions in this thread.

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That's why I've started to lose interest in SMN debates. It's a few constructive and/or interesting ideas drowned in the same tired old hyperbole, strawmanning and character attacks as the others.