Dragoons feeling left out?

I'd like to see Dragoons get a Stance that switches their Defense & M.Defense.

I think it would be a more interesting solution than just raising their M.Def to be on par with other classes.

Something really should be done about their low M.Def though; there is no reason for it to be so much lower than other classes imo.

Maybe the answer is to simply let the Dragoon become invincible during jumps...

Then they'd be used for utility, and damage mitigation. They did so in XI... they still drop like flies when everyone else does.

Allow me to Clarify:

Jump & Elusive Jump could be used for that reason... Temporary, but in retrospect... I retract my idea.

That'd be worthless.

Anything in Rage would immediately destroy us after we landed.

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Originally Posted by BigPapaSmurf

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Becoming balanced in a coming expansion doesn't make something balanced in the current state of the game.

At the same ilvl Ninja outdpses DRG after the initial BFB burst, and significantly in the longterm. Ninja will generally barely outdps a Monk of the same ilvl, especially if a warrior is using SE. If positionals become a concern, the lead is increased. Dragoon has no silence, and only one additional gap-closer. Only Ninja has magic damage. Only Ninja can benefit in dps from a tank class. Only Ninja has complete positional freedom. Despite having the shortest melee weapons, Ninja has the highest melee range. Only Dragoon suffers increases damage from raid-wide attacks. Dragoon is the only weapon-type debuffing job who has no effect on the rotations of others in the same job (Chaos Thrust, and resultantly Disembowel, will be used regardless). So on and so forth.

Ninja's general dps will probably have to be trimmed back slightly and Dragoon dps or utility buffed slightly for a true balance across the three melee dps classes.

:: (Personally, I'd like to see DRG develop some manor of speed buff within their rotation, likely via Heavy Thrust -- 15% movement bonus for a short time, 8% attack speed increase, 10% damage bonus; combos can continue without proper positionals, but have none of the initial potency bonus, lose some of the combo potency bonus on the following attack, and have reduced duration (using an attack twice to get correct positionals will still be slightly better than once wrongly, but once wrongly will be better than 2 failed attempts and a success on the 3rd GCD); have the ability to adjust their landing-point mid-jump/dive, immunity to most AoEs not specifically targeting the DRG during jumps/dives; magic defense averaged between their current level and melee-standard such that they have only slightly reduced eHP vs. magic attacks compared to other melee dps, given their increased health pool; and a small dps increase, preferably in the form of some new mechanic or ability modification (e.g. Keen Flurry to allow an ability outside of combo at full bonus, duplicate an ability, or duplicate an ability if it crits, duplicate if you crit within 3 seconds, potentially chaining multiple times with lesser damage each time, etc.).)

I would hope that the above would make DRG both more competitive and more enjoyable, in line with the other two jobs, partly by bringing it a little closer to their action speed, somewhat removing certain irritants, and by making it more opportunistic. Ways to increase skill-gap in the job would also be good.

...as would finally making Skill Speed useful, in general...

A "Balancing Nerf" is never an ideal. It always leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths. If only they could promote individual class worth that benefits the player, and party. Then the idea of only picking and choosing specific classes wouldn't be too much of a "exclude this one because it brings nothing" and more of a "we need this because of x mechanic" it'd allow for more class diversity depending on situation.

Alchemy dammit!

Human kind can not gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain something of equal value must be lost. That is Alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange.

They won't touch Ninja or MNK.

They'll have to do something about DRGs themselves.

I watch Mr.Happy video on his thought of ninja. He made a good suggestion by reducing jump CD's . I think that will help us out a little.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skqx...aUt-HBBZctO9cg
@ 5:52 if you want to see his ideas for DRG

Since the topic has switched to isolation to improvements...

I think we need to go deeper on the concept of Dragoon than simply jump timers. One thing I would like to see is a sort of DoT or buff in direct relation to our jumps. I've always felt that for the skill's level positioning, Dragoonfire Dive does very little for us. It cannot be buffed by Spirit Surge, damage is low for a 2 minute timer, even if it is AoE.

But in general there feels a lack of synergy for all of the requirements made on Dragoon's rotations. Jumps offer us some positional goodies, but little else. Rather than simply reduce their timers, we could see perhaps a vulnerability debuff, a DoT, or some sort of contextual increase in relation to jumps rather than have them be a flat attack skill. After that point maybe further recast timer adjustments can be considered, but I would like more than a surface level adjustment.

we need another census for which is the most wanted dps class in 4 man LP

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Originally Posted by fireslash

we need another census for which is the most wanted dps class in 4 man LP

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That's a poll, not a Census. We have Class population as far as the Census data for that and it was fairly well distributed. I highly doubt that remains the case with Ninja, out, however.

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

I'm sorry if that comes off as entitled or melodramatic, but it is how i truly feel. I do not think I'm the only one.

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You're definately not alone. I'm a dragoon currently progressing on turn 12 and I can't help feeling like a detriment to my static in most fights. I have a Monk alt whom I've also killed t11 with and pumping out consistently high DPS is such a breeze compared to what we have to go through to keep the numbers up as a Dragoon. I enjoy playing Dragoon immensely but currently the effort/damage ratio is skewed, even the utility provided by disembowel is arguable.

Dragoons need a similar incentive to Greased Lightning where superb play is rewarded with superb numbers. The DPS ceiling for DRG is hit too easily and punishment for failure is much too severe, what we need is some flexibility and flow. Dragoons do not adapt well. Removing positional requirements and making them positional potency boosts would make a world of difference quality of life wise but I am not sure if that would still be quite enough to put Dragoon on level with NIN and MNK. At least we wouldn't be neutered as hardly for fights such as turn 9 or turn 11 where getting the positional requirement is not always an option at all. The buff to Dragonfire Dive and Spineshatter was nice and it certainly gave a noticeable boost but it's not quite enough still. If you aren't going to give us a raw potency boost, at least bless us with some utility that is useful for more than gimmick builds such as bard stacking.

While I'm at it I may as well rant about the meaningless lower magic defense we have compared to other jobs, the increased HP pool does not make up for the increased amount of heals we require to get back said HP.