Please reconsider stance on blue mage

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Originally Posted by Duelle

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The issue is not "They should make this like FF XI to the point where the jobs are so indistinguishable from one another that they form tiers within themselves", the issue is that they basically seem to have no desire to even try anything out of the ordinary before even seeing the results.

The issue is that they are basically admitting they won't even try to make the classes different because they've trapped themselves within the confines of the way abilities are learned in this game, as well as how many you get and how they should be used.

It's one thing to say "We want to strive towards this ideal of all the classes executing their role in a similar fashion, but we will work on allowing for some greater variety and balance accordingly if problems arise" and another to say "We aren't even going to try to implement this job because it doesn't conform to the pattern set by the other jobs in the game". Which is exactly what their stance fundamentally is about Blue Mage, regardless of whether or not it would actually be effective because it doesn't fit the three molds they've based the game around they won't even consider it.

For me the irritating factor is that they won't even consider jobs of varying complexity (Such as more advanced pet mechanics on SMN or a non-standard amount or abilities/non-standard ability procurement for something like BST or BLU) because of the notion that everything needs to be for everyone. I don't see anything wrong with letting people who enjoy more challenging mechanics enjoy them, if people can't cope with them they can either learn to or find alternatives.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

the issue is that they basically seem to have no desire to even try anything out of the ordinary before even seeing the results.

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Is Ninjas Mudra system not out of the ordinary or something?

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

The issue is not "They should make this like FF XI to the point where the jobs are so indistinguishable from one another that they form tiers within themselves", the issue is that they basically seem to have no desire to even try anything out of the ordinary before even seeing the results.

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Warrior is pretty out of the ordinary, monk who uses stance dancing with positional is pretty out of the ordinary, the up and coming Ninja system seems pretty out of the ordinary. Because they don't add what you exactly want doesn't mean that they aren't trying new things.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

The issue is not "They should make this like FF XI to the point where the jobs are so indistinguishable from one another that they form tiers within themselves", the issue is that they basically seem to have no desire to even try anything out of the ordinary before even seeing the results.

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They've shown the ability to go beyond the base design for classes with Wrath and Mudras.

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The issue is that they are basically admitting they won't even try to make the classes different because they've trapped themselves within the confines of the way abilities are learned in this game, as well as how many you get and how they should be used.

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I can agree that this is sort of a copout. We've given suggestions on how BLU would work. I still think it's very possible even with the current system.

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Which is exactly what their stance fundamentally is about Blue Mage, regardless of whether or not it would actually be effective because it doesn't fit the three molds they've based the game around they won't even consider it.

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See, the developers would need to actually sit down and see what would need to be adjusted to make it work while retaining the core concept of the job. Blue Mage is VERY easy because the core concept of BLU is "mage that uses monster skills". Everything else is fluff, including the heals/nukes/buffs and the role-select thing that FFXI went with. The job is a blue mage so long as it's a mage that learns and uses monster skills. Once you reach that realization, it's just a matter of assigning the job a role within the trinity, decide what spells would work with it and what construct to use for learning blue magic.

When you really think about it, Mimic/BLU is really tough to introduce in XIV. To be sure, a flex-DPS job would be nice to have in parties;however, many questions come up that make the prospect unlikely:

*How does the new class/job learn its abilities/spells (Lancet? RNG luck?)? How many can be allowed?
*How are the spells to be arranged to maintain game balance?
*What plots will allow the class and job to be introduced without breaking the storyline?

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Originally Posted by Estevo

There's a high chance it won't be :(

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Except that we've already seen gameplay of the system and we already know that it is out of the ordinary ?

Could you people be even more negative ?

Here is a brief outline of how I think the class/job could be successful in Final Fantasy XIV.

1.) Class: Druid (Learns the spells)

2.) Job: Blue Mage (Learns abilities to amplify or adjust blue magic.)

3.) Attributes: INT/STR (When your Role changes there are certain traits that function like cleric stance that convert certain attributes e.g. when a physical blue mage changes to a tank they receive a trait that converts STR to VIT or INT to MND I decided that its unrealistic for Blue Mages to have to focus on 4 type of gear sets so I think that this would be the best solution.

4.) Role: Based on the majorly of spells equipped (Physical DPS/Magical DPS/Healer/Tank) (Default Role: DPS)

5.) Druid/Blue Mages learn spell slots instead of spells/weaponskills.

6.) Druid/Blue Mages learn new spells by completing entries in their hunting log. (e.g. kill 3 bees could unlock pollen; I feel this is a good solution because even if the enemy doesn't use the skill you could still unlock it.)

7.) Traits are based on the spells equipped. (e.g. when you have pollen equpped you could unlock enhanced pollen which could give an addition effect of regen.)

8.) Druid/Blue Mages are mid-range/frontline fighters.

9.) Blue Magic can be used by any class assuming they have unlocked the Blue Magic and they must set it in their cross class skills; however, they do not get traits from Blue Magic.

10.) All Blue Magic has an assigned level, and spells can only be learned 10 levels below the usable level; however, they cannot be equipped unless you are the appropriate level.

11.) All Blue Magic has a characteristic that is displayed in the text (Physical/Magical/Healer/Tank) and during an instance you cannot change any spells equipped unless they have the same characteristics. (e.g. you can change pollen with healing rain; however, you cannot change it with sticky tongue, and let say you have wolf claw equipped you cannot set a healer spell in that slot you can only change it to a physical spell until the instance is over.)

12.) Unlike the other classes that lose access to certain spells while level synced the blue mage doesn't lose access when level synced instead the spells "Sync" to the level of the blue mage. (This is to avoid the issue of losing too many spells while level synced we can't have a level 15 blue mage healer with just pollen, or worst have the blue mage healer lose all his healing spells without a lower level spell to equip.)

13.) Gear dropped from instances can only be "Needed" when you are the appropriate role and class for the gear that drops. (e.g. if your role is healer you cannot "Need" on Strength gear, but that doesn't prevent you from using "Greed".)

14.) Physical Blue Magic uses TP & Magical Blue Magic uses MP; however the Blue Mage unlocks a ability that converts the TP or MP cost to the opposite resource. (e.g. physical blue magic under this stance would cost MP instead of TP.)

15.) Blue Mage specific gear has conversion properties that make it useful for whichever role they desire to take. (e.g. the blue mage has two weapon types one for strength and one for intellect; however, when you switch roles the attribute changes assuming that the attribute is correct for the role. For example a blue mage strength weapon could convert to vitality but not to mind because it is not the correct attribute.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

the issue is that they basically seem to have no desire to even try anything out of the ordinary before even seeing the results.

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Because that costs...you know, money. Money better used to update and bring things to the game that they already know work. Not throw in some half baked class that will suck but people will play "CUZ XI DID IT". Investors don't care about your love for XI, they want results.

Besides, there are not many monster abilites in the game anyway. 95% of them are reskins of things such as overpower, buffs/debuffs and other AoE we already have on other classes. At that point it just turns into Red Mage. They would have to add more random abilities to the NPC already in the game, which again....money.

Done right, Blue Mage brings two things to the table;

Physical Magic; Casting, for example, Triclip, would deal physical damage like a melee DPSs abilities (think Turn 4 where this actually "matters"). While other spells would be more like Black Mages spells (Dark Blizzard?).

Monster type wheels; Pokemans for all you who miss the elemental wheel. Birds beat bugs, bird based spells (such as Peak or Wing Cutter) would have extra damage/effects on bugs. Unlike the elemental wheel, since Blue Mage is the only Job to use such a mechanic it wouldn't bother overall balance. Not until Beastmaster is released, at least. That alone makes it worth adding in my opinion, except Black Mages would probably complain that they don't want to use swords or something, and continue to beg for their elemental wheel back, completely ignorant of how unbalanced it makes things.

Kind of would like a unique resource, but that may not be very FF thing to do lol (mp and tp are just such big staples, and how in the world would you do cross abilities? lol).

They shouldn't give up on blue though ;_;, I would be happy with them bending the class and job structure for certain jobs.

Maybe lore it in for blue mage - by holding the stone your mind empties of all but the memories of monsters*, job quest starts with a peculiar stone feeding off the traumatic and exerted memories of monsters (so you run around and get your face smashed in by powerful monsters, and when you finally unlock blue mage you start out with a bunch of skills you sort of pre-gathered). SE would need to have some passion to design the job though, a lot of stuff unique to it would need to be accounted for (like how Brightshadow mentions lower levels).

*(basically a job that needs no particular root class as it becomes it own)

In other jobs unlikely to be made because job system, I would like to see a druid/form shift class XD (that and they're hard to balance).