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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

Don't think endgame sch care about active participation in copperbell normal mode.

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If by endgame sch you mean someone who was probably carried through everything by their stellar static? Sure (now imagine how well they would be doing with an actual healer). No self respecting healer who is actually worth their salt does this stuff, so with that all you've established so far is the logic, "everyone is being healed, no one is dying, etc etc etc" on the soul justification that you're a special snow flake (ie the cake set in front of you bit).

Anyways, you are a prime example why I don't use DF/PF without multiple FC/LS friends just in the event I run into this kind of garbage. And some wonder why there is an ever growing social rift in the player base. In all honesty if you see me in your party roster and you're planning to do this just drop and re-queue. As I'm going to notice you doing it and I will troll you to the best of my ability and waste as much of your time as I possibly can within the boundaries of ToS. Because hey they're no rules saying I can't just kite you in circles outside of the final boss room for the duration of the dungeon timer while my FC mates kick back and laugh.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

BS over 9001

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Let's break this down, step by step, because obviously paragraphed sentences are too much for you to handle.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

i dont know how many times we have to say the same thing over and over. i addressed your first sentence already multiple times. fairy keeps the tank alive so he can tank, fairy keeps the dps so they can dps. the fairy is healing, so the healing role is being fulfilled, as you're not dying. i also mentioned the time factor so im not going to repeat it again.

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I don't know how many times we have to say the same thing over and over, you being AFK during a dungeon can be considered harassment. Period. IDGAF if your fairy can take care of everyone. All the more reason you can DPS to help everyone accomplish their goal quicker, instead of purposely AFKing during a dungeon. I WILL NOT repeat that again, regardless of how long you care to drag out this argument.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

WTF does ToS have anything to do with what i said? Never did i mention anything about terms of service or use tos as an argument to why a dps should dps. Oh and guess what? I have joined with people who heal and follow. know what we did? beat the dungeon. Not cry that the healer was still healing even though he not at the keyboard or alt-tabbed.

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Maybe you didn't mention the ToS, but it has been mentioned multiple times in this thread. "Healer isn't supposed to DPS blah blah blah." Well, this blends in to your 'expected time' statement (which will be dissected later). You flat-out establish the fact that your character needs to do absolutely nothing for your fairy to heal a low level dungeon. I "expect" you to contribute in other ways that aren't outside the realms of your individual skill. Don't try to preach horseshit and make it out to be filet mignon. And who is crying? Me? I have 100 healer friends in LS/FC that would love to replace you for 100 quick myth tomes right at the end of a dungeon. I don't cry, I act. And I already said what I do in situations such as these. I won't repeat that again either.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

and yes, if i have a piece of cake, you can be sure that i will eat it. i will not just sit there and look at it. (always thought that analogy was dumb) Thus, heal and follow and keep the party alive/not waste time, but not give bonus time if i so choose. or heal in primals/coil and keep party alive/not waste time, but not give bonus time if i so choose.

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You obviously think the analogy is dumb, because you don't understand what it means. That's ok. I won't waste my time on an English lesson. But the analogy itself is sound. All your debate about "bonus time" and "expected time" doesn't mean a damn thing to me. You are basically saying it is ok for you to do something as a healer and it is not ok for a different Job to do the same. Period.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

a dps not dpsing is not taking away bonus time. it's taking away expected time. read the argument.

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First of all, who are you to expect anything out of anyone when you yourself are blatantly fessing up to giving the absolute bare minimum? Here's your double standard. You say "DPS as a healer" is bonus time. What if I think your lucky you even grouped into a random dungeon with me? You don't deserve to expect anything out of anyone when you could care less about making a run more efficient.

Secondly, "expected time" is egregiously subjective. I have seen MNK's perform rotations in dungeons and never once re-position. That is cutting highly into your expected time. However, at least I can recognize whether or not the player is even trying, or AFK. Can offer them tips to make their rotation better, hence turning that player into a better player over time. My 'expected time' was low in the dungeon due to the loss of DPS. You can't expect anything when teaming up with random players, except for the fact that the person is ACTUALLY THERE.

Which you are not.

I see people saying that tanks can't AFK...but in low-level dungeons MRD/WAR just need to Overpower until their TP is gone and then they can literally just stand there and do nothing until the mob is dead and they move on to the next one.

Frankly the only people who can't perform their job while AFK are PLD and DPS. But DPS never get any credit for anything, ha.

Well their is a vote kick option for AFK. Healer on follow and AFK is still AFK, so viable reason to vote kick :)

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Originally Posted by Zagam

Oh and stop the 2-4 commendation per run bs, because you would have the gold mount weeks ago , I imagine your terrible attitude carries over in game and no matter how well you actually play it would still show its ugly head.

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2-4 commendations while playing as a tank and healer is easy. Ask around if you want to. 2 commendations for a 8 man instance for a healer is really very easy. At least in Tonberry Server.

For example:

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...psf2c3f3de.png

Got 2 commendations as a WHM. I believe the other WHM got at least 2 also.

I didn't have the gold mount (about 36X commendations now) is because was playing DPS mainly and it was about until end of 2.1 I started playing a PLD. Prior to that BRD is the only class I played. Garnered about 100+ commendations before 2.2 launch, and in 2.2 I played WHM for roulettes and BFSR. At the current rate I'd get the gold mount before 2.3.

Yeap I can have an asshole attitude and at the same time people I've played in game that knows me knows that I can have a helpful attitude. It depends on who I'm dealing with.

I am not especially pleased here because of all the unappreciative attitudes and feels that a healer who DPS is an entitlement. Sorry but I still say NO. They can just heal only, semi-afk or afk for all I care as long as the party is kept healthy. If the instance is going slow and they decided to DPS to help or simple choose to DPS and able to keep the party healthy it's a bonus and I'm appreciative of them, and I give them commendations.

Thankfully JP server players are generally appreciative and that's why I said a good healer typically gets good number of commendations. At least in Tonberry Server. IDK about NA but being in a NA server before, it's pretty horrible I'd expect. Yeah, all that entitled attitude.

Healer's sole job is to heal and keep the party healthy. Any extra is a bonus.

Same goes to tanks. A tank's sole job is to hold aggro. If they can deal good DPS too then it's also a bonus.

Like I said - people needs to learn to appreciate good things.

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Originally Posted by Zagam

I'm just using the person I was replying too failed logic, I am dpsing, auto attack will kill the mob albeit very slow, dragging out the healers(and everyone's run just like the healer is doing). Anything more is a bonus, ig the healer can't be bothered then why should I?

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Originally Posted by Alukah

There's a difference here, the role of DPS is to deal dmg, the role of healer is to heal.

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Alukah already corrected you. The SCH is keeping everyone topped off. Proper healing is there. Auto attack is garbage DPS. Well, unless you are talking about the healer barely keeping everyone alive like everyone at 5% HP but no one dies, then your auto-attack analogy stands.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

same thing again, but with added same thing

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Let's break this down, step by step, because obviously paragraphed sentences are too much for you to handle.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. Let's begin.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

I don't know how many times we have to say the same thing over and over, you being AFK during a dungeon can be considered harassment. Period. IDGAF if your fairy can take care of everyone. All the more reason you can DPS to help everyone accomplish their goal quicker, instead of purposely AFKing during a dungeon. I WILL NOT repeat that again, regardless of how long you care to drag out this argument.

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You DGAF if the fairy can heal everyone in low level dungeon? Sch DGAF about you QQing over them not dpsing. I WILL NOT repeat that again, regardless of how long you want to drag out this argument.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Maybe you didn't mention the ToS, but it has been mentioned multiple times in this thread. "Healer isn't supposed to DPS blah blah blah." Well, this blends in to your 'expected time' statement (which will be dissected later). You flat-out establish the fact that your character needs to do absolutely nothing for your fairy to heal a low level dungeon. I "expect" you to contribute in other ways that aren't outside the realms of your individual skill. Don't try to preach horseshit and make it out to be filet mignon. And who is crying? Me? I have 100 healer friends in LS/FC that would love to replace you for 100 quick myth tomes right at the end of a dungeon. I don't cry, I act. And I already said what I do in situations such as these. I won't repeat that again either.

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Idc if ToS has been mentioned multiple times in the thread. What sense would it make for me to bring other peoples’ arguments into the argument with you and argue against it as if you were the one who said it towards me? None. You expect a bonus: healer dps. Have a nice time expecting. Yes, you are QQing pretty hard. Idgaf if you have 100 healer friends in LS/FC that would love to replace me or another healer in a low level dungeon. Actually I don’t give two. QQing and acting aren’t mutually exclusive, you are a prime example.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

You obviously think the analogy is dumb, because you don't understand what it means. That's ok. I won't waste my time on an English lesson. But the analogy itself is sound. All your debate about "bonus time" and "expected time" doesn't mean a damn thing to me. You are basically saying it is ok for you to do something as a healer and it is not ok for a different Job to do the same. Period.

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Again, another pointless atk. I wouldn’t make a statement akin to always thinking it was dumb if I didn’t know what it really meant. Thus the response given. Waste of time. Bravo. Sch mechanics allow sch to heal low level w/o being there. Dps does not. If you follow as dps, you will do nothing but follow(outside of certain conditions being met with certain ranged in regards to an auto-atk). Again, the QQing b/c you can’t do what sch do in a small selection of dungeons. If what I say doesn’t mean a damn thing to you, then stop arguing, stop qqing, and just go play with your “100 healer friends.”

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

First of all, who are you to expect anything out of anyone when you yourself are blatantly fessing up to giving the absolute bare minimum? Here's your double standard. You say "DPS as a healer" is bonus time. What if I think your lucky you even grouped into a random dungeon with me? You don't deserve to expect anything out of anyone when you could care less about making a run more efficient.

Secondly, "expected time" is egregiously subjective. I have seen MNK's perform rotations in dungeons and never once re-position. That is cutting highly into your expected time. However, at least I can recognize whether or not the player is even trying, or AFK. Can offer them tips to make their rotation better, hence turning that player into a better player over time. My 'expected time' was low in the dungeon due to the loss of DPS. You can't expect anything when teaming up with random players, except for the fact that the person is ACTUALLY THERE.

Which you are not.

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The absolute bare-minimum of a healer is healing. Eos can efficiently and effectively heal the low-level b4 brayflox, as the run will not slow to a crawl from them only healing. A dps cannot do the same. A tank cannot do the same. SMN could do what sch do and only let pet atk while on follow, but that would only be fulfilling effectiveness(helping make the mob die), but not efficiency of the bare-minimum of the expected role: dps. And yes,actually Icould care less about making a run less efficient, which is why personally, I dps when I go healer in low-level(in addition to liking to dps in general being a reason). However, my argument is about people who go afk and why I don’t have a problem with it. And please, if you’re going to try to atk my intel about analogies/phrases, at least use yours correctly. “Couldn’t care less” is what you were looking for, despite the mistake being somewhat common.

*Sigh* Efficient and effective fundamental role fulfillment. That has been the underlying theme. You have acknowledged that you are aware that is the theme with previous statements. Now you are bringing in arguments by isolating part of my argument, not taking into account the underlying theme, or the context, and then presenting an example to support your isolation. Who cares if you’ve seen bad dps, bad tanks, etc. Who cares if you can give tips on being better. The argument was about efficient and effective fundamental role fulfillment, meaning that we(if we are healing) are grouped with competent party members. Thus, I have always been talking about expected time given that theme is being fulfilled. There is a range of expected time, which will change based on the layout/difficulty of a dungeon(say Copperbell vs Stone Vigil), it takes given that theme is met. That time will get better,thus bonus time, if the healer decides to dps. That time will remain in the expected if he/she does not.

Clearly you can expect something from random players. That person has full allagan gear? Good they’ve been through at least 1st coil, so they should be able to tank/dps this competently . Oh this person has multiple 50s? At the very least I expect them to know the relative simple mechanics of bosses. Oh this one has all 50s? Then they know this dungeon like the back of their hand. Hm this search info for this dps says he/she was server first in second coil t8, with both a melee and ranged being high ilvl; So I can expect this dps to basically yawn through this easy low-level, where combos/rotations are very small/simple. Expectations can be set quite easily in low-level roulette.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

will insert answer through edit. please hold.

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I been waiting for your bullsh*t response for over 30mins now. Oh, you must be AFK-responding.

/duh

Whatever you say isn't worth my time anyway. Have a pleasant day.