The real pay off is not gating everything. Why does every peice of content have to be gated to the msq. If the story is so great it shouldn't need the dungeons, jobs, zones, and other content linked to it. All content up to 3.4 is screwed I get that. The point is why have they chosen to continue this plan when they know they can't fix it and it is a bad system.Quote:
Originally Posted by bass9020
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12-31-2016, 01:11 AMMoonlite
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12-31-2016, 01:27 AMbass9020Jobs aren't gated though! Yes the HW ones will be and its shame they can't move them to a different area like Central Coerthas to start, but the new jobs won't be locked to the main story. Its not a bad system everything has a purpose and reason to do something. The only people who think it is a bad system are the ones who want to rush to cap or new players who feel the game has no value accept in the current expansion. Lets butcher everything for that type of player while the people who are content and dont have issues get crapped on!Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlite
I mean they are already butchered the class/job system for people who dont want to level or get new abilities, they took trials out of side story quests, dungeons are long corridors so people dont have to think and can zerg it. -
12-31-2016, 01:28 AMVelhartBecause the game is not like other MMO's. It has a flowing narrative like a traditional FF. It isn't like WoW where the world is changing and growing despite if you are online or not. It being a bad system is purely subjective. I thoroughly enjoy this form of questing and I can vouch that a good amount of others do also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlite
The best you can ask for is make the transition to each expansion not as bloated as 2.1-2.55. Even then, getting from 3.1 to 3.4 is very fast especially if you skip the scenes. -
12-31-2016, 02:40 AMLambdafishImagine this scenario: Upon finishing 2.0, the player gets the following message:Quote:
Originally Posted by bass9020
"In order to gain access to Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward, you must complete all main scenario quests from patches 2.1 through 2.55. If you wish to gain immediate access to expansion content, you may do so by speaking to the guard outside the steps of faith in Coerthas central highlands.
*Note: Gaining access to the expansion this way will mark all Main Scenario Quests from 2.1 to 2.55 as complete. You can watch all cutscenes in the unending journey, and furthermore a summary video will play upon entering the expansion zone for the first time."
What story is butchered? This is similar to the jump potion, except the only content being cut is the content that people have a problem with, rather than all story. On top of that, it is much easier to summarise the events of 2.1-2.55 than it is summarising 2.0-3.55. (And yes, this is viable, all of the technology has already been used within the game).
The same thing could also be done for 3.1-3.3, and on the run up to 5.0, could be changed to 3.1-3.55 (due to 3.4-3.55 being the prologue to 4.0).
If you don't see an issue with gating a new expansion behind 60 hours (at least) of old content, I don't know what I can possibly say to change your mind. I'm of the mind of giving players a choice, but the jump potion is an awful way to segregate players because it skips all main story content, rather than just the fluff. Players miss a lot of important context if they use a jump potion, and the devs need to tailor an experience where a player can fast-track the story in the most optimal way.Quote:
Originally Posted by bass9020
The reason that people have an issue is that the devs acknowledged feedback and have done nothing about it. Jump potions are not a solution:
"Though it’s still a bit early to talk about this, you’ll be able to access and accept quests for Patch 4.0 even if you have not completed the main scenario for the Patch 3.x series. Similarly, you’ll be able to unlock new jobs regardless of your scenario progression. Due to this, we feel the need to create a system that will allow you to watch a digest of what happened. However, for the 3.0 story, since everyone has seen everything up until now I think it was enjoyable, and while there were some pros and cons for this, I think having the system we did for the 3.x series was a good thing." - 22nd August 2015 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Thread/page2)
What this turned into:
"Upon using the “Adventuring Records of Heavensward,” the player character will have completed the main quest up to the final quest in patch 3.5 part 2, as well as accepting the initial main quest for Stormblood." - 17th December 2016 (OP of this thread) -
12-31-2016, 03:38 AMbass9020This really is no longer an issue with 3.1- on, the patches are much smaller compared to the 2.1-2.55 patches. Being able to skip is a luxury, not a necessity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
It's more of a potential fear that the story will be butchered if they decided to not put a paid skip item in. Instead, they would shorten the story instead of doing the work arounds of what you suggested. They have already done it with other features that I have listed in another response.
He also did a more recent interview(E3 2016) where he clearly stated the main story will be continuous and he hopes player understand that. http://gamerescape.com/2016/06/17/e3...naoki-yoshida/Quote:
If you don't see an issue with gating a new expansion behind 60 hours (at least) of old content, I don't know what I can possibly say to change your mind. I'm of the mind of giving players a choice, but the jump potion is an awful way to segregate players because it skips all main story content, rather than just the fluff. Players miss a lot of important context if they use a jump potion, and the devs need to tailor an experience where a player can fast-track the story in the most optimal way.
The reason that people have an issue is that the devs acknowledged feedback and have done nothing about it. Jump potions are not a solution:
"Though it’s still a bit early to talk about this, you’ll be able to access and accept quests for Patch 4.0 even if you have not completed the main scenario for the Patch 3.x series. Similarly, you’ll be able to unlock new jobs regardless of your scenario progression. Due to this, we feel the need to create a system that will allow you to watch a digest of what happened. However, for the 3.0 story, since everyone has seen everything up until now I think it was enjoyable, and while there were some pros and cons for this, I think having the system we did for the 3.x series was a good thing." - 22nd August 2015 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Thread/page2)
What this turned into:
"Upon using the “Adventuring Records of Heavensward,” the player character will have completed the main quest up to the final quest in patch 3.5 part 2, as well as accepting the initial main quest for Stormblood." - 17th December 2016 (OP of this thread)
GE: You previously said that 4.0 won’t be story gated. We were wondering if you could elaborate on what your plans are for that?
Yoshida: In terms of the story- the narratives are continuous. The expectation is that the players will start with ARR and continue through the expansion. The lesson with having 3.0 released was that all of the content of the expansion wasn’t accessible until you beat ARR. The feedback, especially from the Western audiences, was that players weren’t able to access any of the Heavensward content until having completed 2.0. We would still like players to get through the story content, but some of the elements in the expansion we’re considering letting players access certain elements without having to complete content from ARR.
Another thing we’re debating internally is whether or not to have something like World of Warcraft’s jumping potion that would work with both levels an story. The Chinese version actually has something similar to this already. I’m trying to decide if something like this should be timed with 4.0.
I don't see an issue and don't really care, you can't pick and choose what you want to skip and not skip. Either make the decision to pay for the skip and possibly skip potential interesting things. OR not pay for the skip and complete it the normal and intended way. -
12-31-2016, 04:18 AMRoth_Trailfinder
Here's a solution ... should be appreciated by $E if this is nothing but a cash grab :
Jump potion instantly takes you to completeion of whatever patch is current, all the best raid gear + Relic, all classes/jobs at 60 .. and costs $1,000 US. Because, the issue isn't the price, its having to do all the content. -
12-31-2016, 04:23 AMLambdafishBut it is still an issue in 2.x, adding 3.x on top of that (while improved) is adding insult to injury. Also, thanks for the more accurate source confirming my point about locking all of the current content (besides jobs) behind a mountain of time intensive MSQ content.Quote:
Originally Posted by bass9020
I want the story intact as much as you, which is why I came up with my solution that gives players the choice to skip without losing anything (and is free). The players will still have to progress through the narrative, but they can choose to take shortcuts and fast-track at key points if they so wish.
You say that the continuous story is very important, yet reference it as simply "potential interesting things". Reading half of a continuous plot leaves the narrative as confused, unexplained and in the eyes of the player, poorly written. I've explained it before but players (especially if my theory that gating will cause jump potions to become mandatory is true) will go through the story going "whats a garlean? whats an ascian? what are those eye things? who is Yda?". Yes the devs can solve that issue, but not without causing the narrative to suffer for those that have taken the slow route (or writing two different forms of dialogue, one for jump potion users, but isnt the point to save resources?).Quote:
Originally Posted by bass9020
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12-31-2016, 06:04 AMRhode
These are my thoughts.
The story skip potion should come free with the expansion. You should be able to automatically skip the main scenario of at least ARR for free upon purchasing Stormblood.
The job skip potion should only be available to a new service account. Eg, if you have no jobs at 50 yet, you can use the potion. As soon as you have a job at 50, any job, you can no longer use the potion no matter what potion it is (such as, if you have WHM at 50, you cannot use the potion on your GLA). -
12-31-2016, 06:46 AMbass9020He said elements not strictly jobs. We have no idea what that will mean until we see more information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
Why should it be free though? Skipping is a luxury and usually luxuries come with a price. I understand what you are saying but I disagree.
All of that is there own problem for using the potion. The potion is not mandatory nor will it ever be. People just assume it is because they want what everyone else has. As I said, you cant pick and choose what you want from the skip potion. You use it knowing full well you will not know certain plot points or characters.Quote:
You say that the continuous story is very important, yet reference it as simply "potential interesting things". Reading half of a continuous plot leaves the narrative as confused, unexplained and in the eyes of the player, poorly written. I've explained it before but players (especially if my theory that gating will cause jump potions to become mandatory is true) will go through the story going "whats a garlean? whats an ascian? what are those eye things? who is Yda?". Yes the devs can solve that issue, but not without causing the narrative to suffer for those that have taken the slow route (or writing two different forms of dialogue, one for jump potion users, but isnt the point to save resources?).
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12-31-2016, 08:44 AMLambdafishSkipping is a useful tool that allows the devs to mend problematic story elements that have gated the expansion areas, it is the implementation that I am concerned with. Don't get me wrong, I would not be suggesting this if it wasn't made apparent that the SB MSQ is tied to the end of 3.55. The fact that this is one long quest chain makes it exceedingly difficult for new players to catch up (not a problem now, but will become one). You say its a luxury, but what you are saying is that there is no compromise, its either 100% story, or 0% story, and the issues that people have is that 50% of the story that they are doing is fluff, and as time goes on, that builds up into a mountain.Quote:
Originally Posted by bass9020
Skipping is not a luxury, it is accessibility that is optional, and allows people to view a condensed version of certain events in order to get through to current content at a reasonable pace, while retaining all of the relevant information that they will need to know about for the expansion (ascians, garleans, primals, dragonsong war, griffin, WoD etc.) If you really want to be petty, this skip can be without the quest rewards.
6.0: Following current trends, that would mean completing 5.55, which means beating 2.55, 3.55, 4.55 and 5.55. If the solution is jump potion, then that is a lot of content to get through to get to current content, and is enough of a roadblock to safetly call jump potion mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by bass9020
I think you are on the wrong track, you seem quite emotional about people picking and choosing what they skip, and I am wondering why this is. I'm not going to go over the positives in great detail again, because I have written enough on this issue to forumulate an essay on the subject, but I assure you that my line of thinking isn't about new players, but rather what those new players, the jump potion, and future content means for the health of the game (and if you are really interested you can find previous posts of mine that touch on the subject).