Gender locked race?

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Would the even be able to bounce back? It's unlikely that theres a whole lot of boys in the village to start out with considering the with the 1/5 birthrate, and then they'd have to deal with the 1/5 chance at having a son per birth once they did mature :o

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Probably not for generations, no.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Except this reasoning also throws into doubt Hrothgar. Meaning, why code for male female of somethign that is clearly gender locked and may not be in the game, much like why code for another race that is also gender locked and may or may not be in the game. It stands to reason that if you count Hrothgar as being somethign in the game because it was written in that coding, then it stands to reason that Male Viera would also based on the same evidence. If we say there is no conclusive evidence for male Viera, even if the coding is there, we can say the same for Hrothgar. You cant separate those two things from the same thread of logic. So either the code is evidence of two races with 2 genders, or it's evidence of neither and speculation.

Considering what we have already seen, what people have been demanding, why it would be an unwise move on the developers part from both a marketing and PR standpoint, there's a lot going in favor of there being male Viera, and by that extension, a second race named Hrothgar (if we consider the leaks true).




I posted this in another thread but Ill post it here too because its relevant. The lore discussing viera happens in a 24 man raid, not MSQ. This distinction is important because while the lore is cannon, it is not mainstream. Meaning, players may not see ANY of the lore involved that is discussed if they skip the 24 man.

Furthermore, if we take the leaks at face value and things are being retconned or added into older content, it is quite easy for SE to say "In the past, itd be rare to see a Male Viera" and put that into the dialogue. More so, from a lore stand point its easy to include their participation:

- FFXIV MSQ stuff Happens.
- Male Viera: Oh hey, we should probably help handle this cause it affects us too ultimately.
- Everyone else: Oh Snaps! Look at all these male Viera come out of the wood works to do plot things for plot reasons.
- Game goes on never really stopping to talk about why the male viera are out and about now any further.


It really isnt hard to add this to lore, and it does zero in changing the old lore. It just changes the expectations of a small group of fans who are more in line with "This FFXIV game has to be exactly in line with FFXII and Tactics! So No male Viera!"

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Yoshi literally said to read the lore in the Return to Ivalice questline if you want clues about male Viera, and as Shippuu just saud, it essentially amounts to them not existing as far as we're concerned.

What's more, is this lore was JUST added to the game. What is the point in adding this lore to the game, and drawing specific attention to it, only to retcon it a month later?

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

But why make the Veria males so extreme, the lore they have given makes the the male Viera sound very feral and given there extreme and murderous xenophobia I'm guess them coming out will end pretty badly for everyone

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Cultural misunderstandings vs Territory and etc. Eorzeans and many races are outsiders and the Viera, as a whole, are supposedly a secretive race in general. The idea of htem being feral and extremely xenophobic isnt a statement of fact from the NPCs, but something they perceive to be true which may boil down to myths and misunderstandings. Oddly, for all the arguments about the lore of the viera, theres actually nothing in it that is substansive and unable to be changed quite easily. I mean, you could argue that about any and all the lore, but the difference is we witness those interactions and get verification in favor or against some lore points. In this case, we have a few NPCs in a 24 man raid people may or may not participate in where we cant verify anything to any real regards due to the nature of the 24 man raid itself.

Everything we know is hearsay from NPCs on our side of the equation. This makes for incredibly weak lore in this regards and easily changeable to allow for either way. This is also why its important to note that FFXIV isnt other FF games, so they can diverge from any previous lore with how Viera supposedly work and do their own thing from here on out.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

They are trained to fiercely defend the woods. Its not like they're cabalistic or line pikes with heads.

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The text says they kill anyone that enters the woods that isn't viera that goes way beyond fierce, the whole veria race is made out to be violently isolationist.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Probably not for generations, no.

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Actually considering how this type of reproduction works, and the extended lifespan of the viera, it would have an impact, but not a large one, and here's why:

While one female in mammalian species can only have offspring with one male at a time, one male can father offspring with several females at once. This is why the 80-20 sex split in the viera isn't an issue. One male could mate with four females and the population would remain stable or grow whereas if the roles were reversed and there were four males to every one female, the population would die off.

Add to that the viera have very long lifespans, and it's safe to assume that females remain able to carry children for many more years of their lives than humans do, and this makes it less of an issue. You'd potentially have males in the village ranging from embryo to the verge of sexual maturity, so the real difference where would be the ratios. The males coming of age in the village would no longer have to compete with mature males in the wild for partners, and the male to female ratio for a time would change, but it would mean that each male would likely increase the number of females he has children with rather than have some females go without having children.

The real impact here would be cultural. With no males in the while to teach young males the skills they need to survive, you might see a change where males stay in the villages with the females rather than venture off on their own. That would in turn have other impacts on viera society that might leave them more open to explorers from other races coming across their settlements and either forcing them to open up to the outside, or the outside influences would overrun the viera, potentially wiping most of them out.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Yoshi literally said to read the lore in the Return to Ivalice questline if you want clues about male Viera, and as Shippuu just saud, it essentially amounts to them not existing as far as we're concerned.

What's more, is this lore was JUST added to the game. What is the point in adding this lore to the game, and drawing specific attention to it, only to retcon it a month later?

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Because not everyone does raids. If you don't do the Coils of Bahamut they retcon the MSQ for you. The lore around this kind of side content is subject to change. If you haven't done Return to Ivalice, Fran will probably be introduced in a completely different way if they decide to make her relevant in Shadowbringers, and any Viera lore about them keeping to the forest will probably be thrown out the window.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Because not everyone does raids. If you don't do the Coils of Bahamut they retcon the MSQ for you. The lore around this kind of side content is subject to change. If you haven't done Return to Ivalice, Fran will probably be introduced in a completely different way if they decide to make her relevant in Shadowbringers, and any Viera lore about them keeping to the forest will probably be thrown out the window.

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It doesnt matter who reads what, you can skip the entire MSQ if you want.
Yoshi P specifically drew attention to this lore as important information pertaining to the status of male Viera in hydaelyn.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

The only way they could get around that one is by having only the young boys in the villages survive. It'd be a pretty awful way to handle it, though. And it'd still cripple the Viera population until they matured.

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On the note of a species going extinct, that'd be kind of cool imo. If you could play a dying race, you're the last wave and it will end at you. Half way through the story you find there is one last of the opposite gender, and after trying to protect them dearly to get them to safety SE Sephiroths them right in front of you.. :3. Boop.

Might be a better idea to sell them as a going extinct race first before letting people know they could play as them though, it would make acceptance much smoother. Rather than taking away an option as it might feel if they burn down all the male Viera or something like that, this would present it more as "was never an option".

One might even question if the recent changes to the Terms of Service are intended to mitigate the disappointment and backlash that would arise from a gender lock...

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

It doesnt matter who reads what, you can skip the entire MSQ if you want.
Yoshi P specifically drew attention to this lore as important information pertaining to the status of male Viera in hydaelyn.

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Because the lore actually depends on how you read it and what you take from it. In fact, the Dramaturge talks in the past tense. This is how things used to be, now things have changed in recent times. Example; those who leave the wood aren't seen as outcasts or exiles no more.

When he was a youth he did this travelling, he never saw one and others didn't see them either. But times are changing - they are changing, their way of life is changing. Things that were shunned are shunned no longer. The war has them on the defensive, they need aid. They need the WoD.

Let's also bring forward the fact they're supposedly all in that wood. These fierce warriors who defend the wood and their families. Having them not defend the wood in any shape or form goes against their lore unless something extremely drastic, such as their deaths or capture - would have it make sense.

Viera are not idiotic, they will seek help from outsiders if it is to protect the wood. If the wood tells a viera to leave in order to become WoL or put them on that path. They will leave.