Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Honestly, if RNG is the route that the designers decide to follow then you'll delight nobody planning to go into serious content. No one maps their cooldowns or healing abilities to things that can proc or happen on chance-- especially not if it's a negligible boon on top of it. No matter how likely it is to proc, if it's anything short of a hundred percent, people will be reluctant to rely on it.

You can see this being reflected in the Astrologian's toolkit of The Bole and The Spear even prior to The Balance changes; RNG defensive mechanics were always unnecessary as even if a group decided to rely on something occurring with a high chance, all it takes is that off-chance of something not going right due to a random number for a wipe to happen and consistency to fly out the window (something of which is of great import in harder content as there's already plentiful human error).

Last post we listed the likelihood of getting a lily proc. However those number are a bit misleading when you factor in what it is the Lilies actually do...

We all should know by now that lilies reduce the recast timer on the next single use of one CD on this list:

• Divine Bension - 15% shield on a 60 sec recast
  
• Asylum - A 6 yalms radius, 100 potency fix-area-of-effect regen for 24 sec on a 90 sec recast
  
• Assize - 300 potency aoe heal and aoe dmg on a 60 sec recast
  
• Tetragrammaton - 700 potency single target heal on a 60 sec recast

We learned it's very likely to get at LEAST one lily in a 30 sec window off of 3-5 cure gcds, which is applicable in all game content (FATES, hunts,dungeons, 24-man, extremes, progression raiding, raid farming). And avg of 58%!!:cool: HOWEVER the issue isn't the likelihood of getting a lily....it's what 1 lil can do for us :(. One lil expunged on one of the 4 listed cds will reduce your recast time by 2 sec for your 60 sec recasts and 3sec for Asylum's 90 sec recast (Actual reductions are 2.4sec and 3.6sec respectively if SE allows fractional reductions). So let's put this all in perspective "you have about a 58% chance that your next CD used will be on a 58 sec recast (or 87 sec recast for Asylum):mad::mad::mad::mad: SE PLEASE.... what are we gonna do with 2-3 sec ~50% of the times we use ONE of our cds????

BUT WAIT!!! You don't like 2-3 sec nominally? How about 5 secs reduction off of Asylum and Assize? Does that sound nice!? IT SURE DOES! But....they made it 20% off a crit....lulz:p:p:p. Let's put it this way. Even healers that stack 1k crit rate stats only avg 12-15% actual crit rate. So if you're only gonna proc 20% of the time off of an already 12-15% of the time crits, then you might as well bank of getting 2+ lilies while you're at it (the chances are virtually the same!!) LOL:cool::cool: Basically Go back to the first post with the rates and multiply everything by 12-15% (assuming you even have 1k crit stat on your healer gear...). The numbers are bad. So don't count on getting that 5 sec...

My issue again isn't at all the rates!! It can be stuck behind this kind of RNG; but making it REWARDDING!!! Yes getting 1 lil is very very likely, but a 2-3sec reduction on JUST ONE CD is very very underwhelming...

Meanwhile getting 2+ lilies will be a miracle and getting the proc off crits will also be a miracle, but make these miracles FEEL like a MIRACLES!!

SUGGESTIONS

• 1 Lily: 10% (6-9 sec off of your 60-90 sec cds isn't GOOD but it isn't BAD...it's just ...Hmm... and that's ok!)
• 2 Lilies: 25% ( decent....might be better at 30%....but 25 is decent!)
• 3 Lilies: no recast!! (OP result for an impossible odd!)
  
• 20% chance of reduction off crit cure rewards needs to either be able to stack! Meaning you can get multiple 5 secs off! or give us a flat 10 sec off.

As a WhiteMage Main, I personally cant believe what is being done to White Mages, not only did white mage get dumped on for the entire expansion of heavensward, Im afraid it is going to continue happening in stormblood as well.

- Because if you saw the role abilities, white mage lost 3 core abilities, like Esuna, Shroud of saints, and divine seal, and now those three are in the healer role abilities, which both scholar and astro can use, I dont understand how square enix thinks that it is okay for those two healers to have an extra mana regen ability " Lucid dreaming / Shroud of saints " while still keep their own spells that give them mana... and more over, have divine seal, which gives them extra heals... scholar already has an ability like that, " when he sacrifice his fairy " so why give him another one??

we will buff white mage in 4.0 they said... this is not buffing...

It appears to me that none of the game devs play WHM as their main, else I cannot see how this proposal to make WHM a specialised healer in comparison to the other two healers to be a sensible development for this class.

As many have pointed out - there is currently no need and will never be a need for a specialised healer as all healer combinations need to be viable for endgame healing.

If any of the devs actually main WHM, this idea would had been extinguished the moment it was suggested. Or at least, the roles of the other healers tweaked such that this is a viable development for WHM.

To me, there are only two logical options:

1) Make all healers homogeneous in terms of functions, so either
a) ALL healers are hybrid healer/dps or healer/support combinations, and that includes WHM.
b) ALL healers become specialised healers with different playstyles.

OR

2) WHM is the only specialised healer and MUST be one of the two healers in any endgame content.

To me, I see no other viable options to balance healers.

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Originally Posted by Megurineluki20

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To be fair, Aetherflow from scholar was nerfed from 20% -> 10% and Luminferous Aethyr (the AST Shroud) was removed.

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Originally Posted by MizArai

Thanks for the correction. :-) I was trying to point out to someone else that WHM lost more than they thought to the role skills while also acknowledging how much healers as a whole are losing to it. It seems counter-intuitive to me to take things that healers need in their toolkits (that we already had built into each healer) and throw them on a shared list of skills to choose from.

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Honestly speaking for myself, Synastry lost nothing, I used it for times when I needed solid healing on two targets, whether it be the tanks in AC4 or Sephirot add phases, or back in AG1 days when two dps could be kept up through missile drops with it. Dont think ive ever used it for the healing boost, just like on WHM I almost never used Divine Seal, and probably will only have Largesse for SCH/Noct when Im actually in need of boosting my heals, not just making my regens even more stupid strong.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

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I am WHM hand in France and I love my job! Thank you very much, for your very pertinent analysis! I do not speak English enough to propose precise solutions, and I find yours very interesting. With these solutions among other things, I am sure the whm will be magnificent.

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Originally Posted by javid

Meanwhile getting 2+ lilies will be a miracle and getting the proc off crits will also be a miracle, but make these miracles FEEL like a MIRACLES!!

SUGGESTIONS

• 1 Lily: 10%
• 2 Lilies: 25%
• 3 Lilies: no recast!!
  
• 20% chance of reduction off crit cure rewards needs to either be able to stack! Meaning you can get multiple 5 secs off! or give us a flat 10 sec off.

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While "any port in a storm" applies to buffs to WHM at this point... I really feel like whatever they do, it should synergize (sorry) with WHM's kit. As of right now the system is flat out contradictory, even if the numbers are buffed hugely it won't affect the problem with the concept. At the very least, let WHMs continue to build lilies without effectively locking out some of WHM's best skills.

Hello everyone, I decided to register here so I can post on this thread as well. I'm not sure if the developers are going to read this or not, but I'll gladly share my point of view and ideas about whm 4.0 nonetheless. I love white mage, white mage is my love, and not because of its simplicity. I like to divide jobs into themes, and I like white mage's theme - a mage who is connected to nature, divine, angelic, pure, white <3 Isn't it perfect? In my opinion, the theme of the white mage is beautiful, and what I had expected for white mage, or at least hoped for, was that it would follow this same theme in Stormblood. It sort of did, but... Sadly, I was very disappointed when I heard about the changes, because I feel like I have less things to play with as a white mage now.

Feedback on the new WHM skills:
I don't like the argument that claims that because scholar and astrologian are more complex, they should be rewarded with better tools. Some of the time, if not quite often, it is actually easier to play scholar or astrologian because their tools are simply more powerful. Yes, they have more things to play with, but isn't this a good thing? In the long run, it makes their job easier to achieve. Plus, it's more fun when you have more toys to play with. For this reason, I find that some of the new white mage skills make it more difficult for the white mage to do their job, while being unneeded to begin with. For example, the new Confession system sounds to me so unnecessary and not fun to play at all, as it gives no rewarding whatsoever. Plenary Indulgence 400/500/600 potency heal means very little to me, when I can just cast 2-3 medica's instead - much more simple and effective. If anyone tried to play with these presented confession stacks, wouldn't it be a waste of time? Furthermore, I like the look of the new skill Divine Benison. It is very nice and goes well with the white mage theme. However, since we already had a similar skill before, I find it a nerf for our Stoneskin. Stoneskin was so... iconic? It went with our theme perfectly because of the earth theme to it, it makes me sad to think it's gone. It can have great use in fights when there's a tank buster, and you can reapply it whenever you want. The new Divine Benison is on cool down, so only one person can have it on them - which is a huge nerf. I won't be able to reapply it immediately when it drops. When you look at our cousin, the astrologian, he already has an instant shield + bole card, which is far superior than what we currently have.

The new skill Thin Air is very powerful and welcome.

The new lilies mechanic is pretty on the screen, but I will probably ignore it, as I don't spam cures. If something procs, then yay. Otherwise, I won't really care about losing or gaining flowers.

Feedback on general healer gameplay:
I was disappointed to find out that the healers will lose virus, while the DPS classes will gain new mitigation skills. I feel as though DPS are robbing me MY gameplay. It should be *my thing* to prevent damage and heal, not theirs. This will make things easier for me, which I dislike.

Feedback on new role actions:
I feel that some of the new role actions shouldn't be role actions at all. For example: Shroud of Saints was perfect for our WHM theme, it's a shame it was renamed and put into role actions where WHM will have to take it back and therefore, waste one role action slot for it. I think that many feel the same as me, as astrologian had a similar action with its own theme too. It's a loss to both. Similar thing happened to Esuna, all jobs had it with a name that suited them, why rename it and have it as a role action, wasting another role action slot? These two skills are mendatory for all healers, except scholar might not really need Lucid Dream as he already has Aetherflow which works great already. Overall, I think that protect should be available to all healer jobs as default and virus should return to healers too. Divine Seal was a white mage job skill, why is it in role actions is beyond me.

Feedback on WHM lack of skills:
As mentioned before, I fear white mage has too little skills now to play with. The job is less engaging and have less things to do. In my opinion, I'd like to have more skills to play with. I am not afraid of 'complexity', complexity comes with great rewards once you master it for sure, and will be easier and more fun in the long run. I'd love to have more skills in the WHM theme similar to the new skills we are given but different and more fun overall. The skills should have to do with elements or divinity for sure. I also like the idea of white mages having a party buff Haste skill that is like Sprint for dodging aoes, that can be useful for everyone.

I think it is a mistake to remove stoneskin. Instead of removing it, there should be a way to enhance it with lilies - like the ability to stack 2 stoneskins when there are 2 white mages in a party. It could turn into a useful and powerful shield.

Give white mages a 'mini-god-mode' stance: Instead of confessions stacking on other party members, have them stack on white mage like summoner, once they reach 3 stacks, they can go into a special (10-15 seconds) stance that will grant them healing and damage bonuses. Like... 10% more self damage output + 10% healing potency + self defense goes up 20%, and have them grow wings like angels. That could be fun and also aesthetically pleasing <3

Overall feeling:
When I run into an astrologian (which happens a lot recently)... I do feel I bring less things to the party. I actually feel inferior, which is not a great feeling while trying to have fun. I told people before that astrologian is over powered, but people used to dismiss me. Astrologian was buffed too much, it's no longer a support class, but it has better healing and damage output than both white mage and scholar. This is insane... to the point I think the new best composition in raids would be 2 astrologians. I will continue with white mage as my main in Stormblood and am looking forward to new changes and fixes for the current skills, as I do love it and I hope to continue loving it in Stormblood too. Thank you for reading.

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

You say "what's stopping people just spreading Regen around on players not needing it?" as if people can't just sit casting Cure on players that don't need it.

They can very much be on regen. Maybe on application or fall-off, but there's no inherent difference between Cure and Regen for this purpose.

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I'll be nice...

how many cures can you cast in 30 secs??? Let's assume a 2.0 GCD; in 30 sec you can cast 15 cures!! THATS a ton!!

ok............

how many ticks from HoTs can you cast in 30 secs on a 8 man party?? lets assume a 2.0 GCD: one medica II +11 regens; for total tick count within the 30 sec of.... 133 F#$KING TICKS

....NOW......which of the two looks more abusive? 15 attempts at getting a lily/confession in 30sec? or 133 attempts at getting a lily/confession in 30sec? ALSO... which of the two actually casted MORE GCDS?? 15 CURES GCDs? OR 12 GCDs on regen and medica combined???

DUDE ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE......not even......close......