Lack of End Game Content

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

the feeling of having to meet the cap within that set period or end up feeling behind.

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Since we're speaking endgame, at that point, they should know enough about the game to maximize their playtime and what they want to accomplish in the game without having to feel left behind. Another thing to consider is that having no cap means that you can be left behind even more and then having the pressure to overcompensate when catching up.

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Originally Posted by linay

Since we're speaking endgame, at that point, they should know enough about the game to maximize their playtime and what they want to accomplish in the game without having to feel left behind. Another thing to consider is that having no cap means that you can be left behind even more and then having the pressure to overcompensate when catching up.

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Yes, you could be left behind even more, but if your group isn't willing to help get you back up to speed and instead just tosses you to the curb, it wasn't a very good group to begin with was it? A good group will help with those catch up clears making it go really fast.

I have plenty of friends that would love to play an MMO that simply won't pick one up currently because their current field of work and the cap systems that MMOs use for end game content are incompatible. Their schedule fluctuates in ways that make it impossible to static, and if you pug on weekly capped content, this can happen quite easily, and its also why guilds developed their point systems.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

It's a different group every week. So far I've been out rolled as follows:

Week 1 ES1 + ES2 - 6 Drops
Week 2 ES1 + ES2 + ES3 - 9 Drops
Week 3 ES1 + ES2 + ES3 - 9 Drops

Like I said, very problematic.

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I would bet Avraym feels behind progression wise and thats even with meeting the weekly cap.

The fun of military work or other jobs such as those that work in oil drilling and the like where could be running into situations of couple of weeks of near constant work followed by a couple of weeks off, or schedules that fluctuate on a very regular basis and can't have set days off like with typical shift work. Which is a nice chunk of potential players that might not touch some harder content as often as they might want to as they are limited much more on when they can play and the caps don't really account for them. These are the ones who would benefit the most from the removal of caps, along with those that might be taking a vacation for a couple of weeks. At least without an enforced cap, groups with a member that falls into one of the above scenarios can plan around it, and delay the clears until they can do it as a group instead of loosing the loot chance for cap cycle.

And the point you raised about maximizing playtime for best effect. Why do you think people started making guilds and statics in the first place? It wasn't to exclude people, but to efficiently clear content in limited playtime for those that are unable to play more than a few hours at a time. Yet weekly content caps can still impact them and put them behind as well thanks to all the same factors that affect any individual.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Impossible for anybody to have been wearing gear at this point as you've complained. If you have the savage ring and you're running e1s on week one, for instance, you A) Can't roll in the first place and B) reduce the total loot everyone else could get as well.


And of these 18 drops, you're telling me that there was such a significant number of people rolling on stuff they were already wearing that it's an issue?


What's your solution that would be meaningfully different than what we have now?

In E1S there are three drops. There are eight players. A pug rotates players by the nature of it being a pug. What is a fair way for loot to work?

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Already made suggestions of what would make a fairer loot system. Scroll up.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Yes, you could be left behind even more, but if your group isn't willing to help get you back up to speed and instead just tosses you to the curb, it wasn't a very good group to begin with was it? A good group will help with those catch up clears making it go really fast.

I have plenty of friends that would love to play an MMO that simply won't pick one up currently because their current field of work and the cap systems that MMOs use for end game content are incompatible. Their schedule fluctuates in ways that make it impossible to static, and if you pug on weekly capped content, this can happen quite easily, and its also why guilds developed their point systems.



I would bet Avraym feels behind progression wise and thats even with meeting the weekly cap.

The fun of military work or other jobs such as those that work in oil drilling and the like where could be running into situations of couple of weeks of near constant work followed by a couple of weeks off, or schedules that fluctuate on a very regular basis and can't have set days off like with typical shift work. Which is a nice chunk of potential players that might not touch some harder content as often as they might want to as they are limited much more on when they can play and the caps don't really account for them. These are the ones who would benefit the most from the removal of caps, along with those that might be taking a vacation for a couple of weeks. At least without an enforced cap, groups with a member that falls into one of the above scenarios can plan around it, and delay the clears until they can do it as a group instead of loosing the loot chance for cap cycle.

And the point you raised about maximizing playtime for best effect. Why do you think people started making guilds and statics in the first place? It wasn't to exclude people, but to efficiently clear content in limited playtime for those that are unable to play more than a few hours at a time. Yet weekly content caps can still impact them and put them behind as well thanks to all the same factors that affect any individual.

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First, if you have to take short breaks, there is plenty of time in between raid tiers that you can catch up comfortably with the cap in place. Second, if you have to take longer breaks, there are catch up mechanics in place and the way vertical progression works it does not really matter if you miss out on a particular gear. Third, if you have people that you can rely on (statics, guilds, friends, etc.), then you can always go back to do old contents you missed out on, even doing it on appropriate gear if you want. Fourth, even if you don't, there is a chance you can still use PF to do old content or just queue for it depending on the type of content it is.

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Originally Posted by linay

First, if you have to take short breaks, there is plenty of time in between raid tiers that you can catch up comfortably with the cap in place. Second, if you have to take longer breaks, there are catch up mechanics in place and the way vertical progression works it does not really matter if you miss out on a particular gear. Third, if you have people that you can rely on (statics, guilds, friends, etc.), then you can always go back to do old contents you missed out on, even doing it on appropriate gear if you want. Fourth, even if you don't, there is a chance you can still use PF to do old content or just queue for it depending on the type of content it is.

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Actually I disagree with this sentiment.

I often take breaks in between patch cycles and don't have the flexability of joining a static due to random working hours.

This means I am subject to the party finder upon my return.

Unfortunately I found often the case when returning to Stormblood for example, the item level's party finder requirement were so high that you couldn't actually join savage this late into the game without already having some savage gear.

That only left me with duty finder, but not many people would queue for incomplete duty this late into a patch cycle.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Actually I disagree with this sentiment.

I often take breaks in between patch cycles and don't have the flexability of joining a static due to random working hours.

This means I am subject to the party finder upon my return.

Unfortunately I found often the case when returning, the item level's party finder requirement were so high that you couldn't actually join savage this late into the game without already having some savage gear.

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That's when you make your own PF with your own requirement. I don't think that invalidates what I said. In fact, I even said you might have to use PF.

And my initial point remains that daily/weekly cap was never meant to address people with irregular schedule or people who choose to take breaks from the game. So it's understandable if they might be inconvenienced by it. There are still ways to get by, but it will always be the case that you will have an easier time playing if you play regularly.

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Originally Posted by linay

First, if you have to take short breaks, there is plenty of time in between raid tiers that you can catch up comfortably with the cap in place. Second, if you have to take longer breaks, there are catch up mechanics in place and the way vertical progression works it does not really matter if you miss out on a particular gear. Third, if you have people that you can rely on (statics, guilds, friends, etc.), then you can always go back to do old contents you missed out on, even doing it on appropriate gear if you want. Fourth, even if you don't, there is a chance you can still use PF to do old content or just queue for it depending on the type of content it is.

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At this point I can't take you seriously any more. To me it seems like you enjoy splitting hairs for the sake of splitting hairs and not trying to add anything to the discussion. As we have essentially gone in a circle, and you never seem to add anything.

Exhaust content, get told to take a break, explain caps create the feeling of needing to complete to avoid feeling behind resulting in the job like feeling many don't want, get told caps are to enforce breaks, explain it does the opposite, then told take breaks anyways and just accept being behind and wait for the catchup cycle. Which would lead us right back to either the person is exhausting the content as soon as it comes out, or waiting for the eventual catch up periods.

If you want to continue this at all, what do you tell those who want to do current end game yet their schedule never really lines up well with the catch up periods? They honestly don't have much of an option with a cap system.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

At this point I can't take you seriously any more. To me it seems like you enjoy splitting hairs for the sake of splitting hairs and not trying to add anything to the discussion. As we have essentially gone in a circle, and you never seem to add anything.

Exhaust content, get told to take a break, explain caps create the feeling of needing to complete to avoid feeling behind resulting in the job like feeling many don't want, get told caps are to enforce breaks, explain it does the opposite, then told take breaks anyways and just accept being behind and wait for the catchup cycle. Which would lead us right back to either the person is exhausting the content as soon as it comes out, or waiting for the eventual catch up periods.

If you want to continue this at all, what do you tell those who want to do current end game yet their schedule never really lines up well with the catch up periods? They honestly don't have much of an option with a cap system.

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You're mixing two different issues.

If you've exhausted the content as in you've cleared and you have nothing else you want to do, then that has nothing to do with the cap. You can take a break if you want. Know when the next content will be released and come back and use catch up mechanics to be ready for it.

If you want to stay geared week after week, then you have not exhausted the content because you still are doing it. In that case, regularly playing it will always be easier, and I agree that if you cannot, it will be more inconvenient for you because the caps were meant to address something else other than you not playing regularly.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Already made suggestions of what would make a fairer loot system. Scroll up.

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"Same as we have now but you can't roll on what you're wearing"?

It would make no meaningful difference in pug groups, if anything it would just make it unnecessarily harsher on statics who can and will gear alts once their mains are completely geared.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Which explains why you've done them all right? You don't even have any primal mounts...

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I dont care about sparkly horses nor am in interested in the same scripted insert a boss here ilvl dependent mess that has seemingly made most people feel current endgame is fresh or new.