ARR Gil Cap Reduction

In the stock market this would be the equivalent of a 10 to 1 reverse stock split. Every 10 shares turn into 1 so the amount of actual shares that you hold drops but the price per share rises in order to maintain the overall value of it.

Personally I would not hold securities through a reverse split (like what happened with THQ in July) but that's another conversation entirely.

Key words in bold for those having difficulties understanding the matter.

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Originally Posted by Aion

you understand math but not economy

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Here I think you are missing the basic point that a person having invested a certain amount of time in the goal of earning X amount by the launch of 2.0 might not find that same time investment a worthwhile trade for the lesser sum even though that lesser sum has the same buying power. I think most of us get that its exactly the same as if they reduced the level cap from 99 to 10, and then reduced us all from 50 to 5. If they change all the mob levels commensurately its as if you are still a level 50 at level 5. I do understand that both logically and mathematically, but the point that you are missing is that if I had known up front this was going to happen I would have spent a large part of the last two years on other in game goals, and I would have spent more of the gil I was saving instead of making do with normal quality crafted gear in the name of that saving. I passed up doing other things like avatars and dungeons to make that gil, and that just became a poor trade. Yes even though the gil I am left with can in theory buy as much.

What I am saying may not be popular, but I haven't been uncivil in this to anyone who wasn't uncivil to me. In my two years on these forums I have made it a point to be both nice, and understanding towards other posters and SE.

I pay monthly fee to play this game, I don't pay a monthly fee to have stuff removed from my account, that is about as basic a concept I can put for you guys to understand. Yes literal value is the only thing that matters about this thread. Because I am literally going to lose my electronic items.

Its worth 10x as much as it was before. Its translated currency to a new denomination. Nothing you have earned is being lost because the change is universal.

I like this post ^ (Mireille of course)

The only people that are fine with this are the poor ones. The people that have busted their chops making a bank for themselves are the ones that suffer. Thanks for punishing your core players, SE

You are hopeless. You are getting your 10 1 dollar bills taken away and given a 10 dollar bill and screaming "NO! ITS NOT AS MANY MONEYZ SO IT CANT BE AS GOOD!"


And your time ISNT wasted. You're still going to have a relatively large amount of money more than other players if you've been money making. Not only is the entire gil in the economy being reduced by 90%, but all of the sources to make that money are being reduced by 90%.

You have a 10 dollar bill now, not 10 ones. There should be no emotional loss, or disparaging feelings of any kind.

My brain can't handle all the people who don't understand this change...

It just can't. It's almost like you guys who are fighting it just got out of a Romney rally, and you're ready to start putting the poor in stocks because your net value changed 0%!

Reiterating what someone else already said:

"We're turning your 4 quarters into 1 dollar."
"Wait, 1 is less than 4, I'm losing my hard-earned money!"

They are literally, LITERALLY doing this and only this, ladies and gentlemen.

"...but what if people continue to sell items for 8,000,000 quarters like before?!"

Welp, we'll see how long their prices stay that high, won't we?
(Spoiler Alert: Not very long.)

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Originally Posted by Mireille

Here I think you are missing the basic point that a person having invested a certain amount of time in the goal of earning X amount by the launch of 2.0 might not find that same time investment a worthwhile trade for the lesser sum even though that lesser sum has the same buying power. I think most of us get that its exactly the same as if they reduced the level cap from 99 to 10, and then reduced us all from 50 to 5. If they change all the mob levels commensurately its as if you are still a level 50 at level 5. I do understand that both logically and mathematically, but the point that you are missing is that if I had known up front this was going to happen I would have spent a large part of the last two years on other in game goals, and I would have spent more of the gil I was saving instead of making do with normal quality crafted gear in the name of that saving. I passed up doing other things like avatars and dungeons to make that gil, and that just became a poor trade. Yes even though the gil I am left with can in theory buy as much.

What I am saying may not be popular, but I haven't been uncivil in this to anyone who wasn't uncivil to me. In my two years on these forums I have made it a point to be both nice, and understanding towards other posters and SE.

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I don't agree with you and you're wrong in the end but I like the post.

I'm fine with this change and I'm pushing 22m. Soon to be 2.2m.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

The only people that are fine with this are the poor ones. The people that have busted their chops making a bank for themselves are the ones that suffer. Thanks for punishing your core players, SE

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Your chops are worth the same amount, I am however sorry you don't understand fractions.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

The only people that are fine with this are the poor ones. The people that have busted their chops making a bank for themselves are the ones that suffer. Thanks for punishing your core players, SE

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What punishment? anyone with 99 mil in ARR will be exactly as close to hyper expensive content as they are right now.

So you're telling us this whole 2 years have been a waste of effort?!
You say (Yoshi-P) this is to make it easier for future players but...
It's impossible to make it fair! Most of us have all jobs in lvl 50 (or at least battle ones)
You say we won't even sense it since the NPC pries are adjusting too...but what about all the people that made money working hard and selling items at the Auction House?! Are you going to tell me the price of the STR material Lv 4 is going to drop from 200k to 20k just because the NPC buys things at lower price? Don't fool yourselves... And please don't try to fool us that have been playing your game all along.

I'm sorry to say this, but you don't play with people's money, not even with in game money. Whenever a government (like mine) takes away peoples savings from the bank, you don't expect people not to be outraged. It's pretty much the same here. We invested time (at least i play 8 hours per day or more). We invested money (remember all those months we payed to play?... And now you take the money we earned through these two years?!

Some of us have been here since it began, with all the bugs, the crappy system, and the prices were wrong too! Then you fixed them, without touching players money. Yes, there was people that took advantage of those pricings, but everyone did their best to keep up!

If you take away our money, you might as well take away the EXP some made because of the PL bug.
Oh, and take the items some earned by killing Garuda when it was bugged.
And don't forget Ifrit, it was bugged too.
You try to be fair with new players, but you nevel actually will, so why piss off the players that have been supporting this game with all it's problems?

Here comes another one...

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Originally Posted by Enri

Are you going to tell me the price of the STR material Lv 4 is going to drop from 200k to 20k just because the NPC buys things at lower price?

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No, not JUST because the NPC buys things at lower price. Also because every gil that you can earn from quests, leves and other content will also be 10x more difficult to earn. And everyone's wealth willl be proportionally equal to what it is right now. If someone ignores the change, well, good luck finding a willing buyer.

No change of note is being made with this recalculation of gil value.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

Here comes another one...

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Your sig pretty much sums up reading General Discussion forums

Guys, I have a secret!




...no one is taking your money.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Your chops are worth the same amount, I am however sorry you don't understand fractions.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

What punishment? anyone with 99 mil in ARR will be exactly as close to hyper expensive content as they are right now.

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Wishful thinking. Every time the worth of gil fluctuated in FFXI, it was highway robbery for the longest time. You think just because gil gets dropped down to 10%, that people will adjust their wares' rates accordingly? No, things are going to get more expensive. Whats 500k now will probably be 200-300k then.

You can do your theorycrafting all you want, and your would-be-should-be math, but it won't change reality.

I'm sure this won't help shed light onto the issue for those still in the dark, but I'll take a swing at it.

If you have $10, and a loaf of bread costs $1, then you have the monetary equivalent of ten loaves of bread.

If the government re-denominates your money so $10 now equals $1, then the loaf of bread now goes from $1 to $0.10. Your money is still worth ten loaves of bread, and thus, you've lost no equity. This gil re-denomination will not alter your net worth.

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Originally Posted by Enri

So you're telling us this whole 2 years have been a waste of effort?!
You say (Yoshi-P) this is to make it easier for future players but...
It's impossible to make it fair! Most of us have all jobs in lvl 50 (or at least battle ones)
You say we won't even sense it since the NPC pries are adjusting too...but what about all the people that made money working hard and selling items at the Auction House?! Are you going to tell me the price of the STR material Lv 4 is going to drop from 200k to 20k just because the NPC buys things at lower price? Don't fool yourselves... And please don't try to fool us that have been playing your game all along.

I'm sorry to say this, but you don't play with people's money, not even with in game money. Whenever a government (like mine) takes away peoples savings from the bank, you don't expect people not to be outraged. It's pretty much the same here. We invested time (at least i play 8 hours per day or more). We invested money (remember all those months we payed to play?... And now you take the money we earned through these two years?!

Some of us have been here since it began, with all the bugs, the crappy system, and the prices were wrong too! Then you fixed them, without touching players money. Yes, there was people that took advantage of those pricings, but everyone did their best to keep up!

If you take away our money, you might as well take away the EXP some made because of the PL bug.
Oh, and take the items some earned by killing Garuda when it was bugged.
And don't forget Ifrit, it was bugged too.
You try to be fair with new players, but you nevel actually will, so why piss off the players that have been supporting this game with all it's problems?

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Ok I think I'm just going to stay away from the forums for a bit. This is just getting silly.

In your example of strength materia IV, when player's can't afford 200k str IV materia, the price will eventually drop. The few people who have the resources and time capable of cornering a market will have to face an improved market ward system (which won't have people blocked from posting items due to retainer space capacities in the ward). The new element into the market won't be savy investor/players trying to corner a market. It'll be the normal player looking to unload gear so they can afford more. They will gladly undercut to make a sale. The undercutting and price gouging will eventually balance itself out until we find the items true value. The raw fact that you'll have more sellers will almost guarantee prices to drop.

You're not losing anything, you're still going to have a dominant advantage over other players (if you're to be believed on your gil balance). New players will be gaining gil at 1/10th the pace that current players are now, and they'll be selling their items at 1/10th the pace that items are being sold at now eventually. You'll just see a cap of 8 numbers now instead of 9.

Brb need whiskey

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Originally Posted by Mireille

Here I think you are missing the basic point that a person having invested a certain amount of time in the goal of earning X amount by the launch of 2.0 might not find that same time investment a worthwhile trade for the lesser sum even though that lesser sum has the same buying power. I think most of us get that its exactly the same as if they reduced the level cap from 99 to 10, and then reduced us all from 50 to 5. If they change all the mob levels commensurately its as if you are still a level 50 at level 5. I do understand that both logically and mathematically, but the point that you are missing is that if I had known up front this was going to happen I would have spent a large part of the last two years on other in game goals, and I would have spent more of the gil I was saving instead of making do with normal quality crafted gear in the name of that saving. I passed up doing other things like avatars and dungeons to make that gil, and that just became a poor trade. Yes even though the gil I am left with can in theory buy as much.

What I am saying may not be popular, but I haven't been uncivil in this to anyone who wasn't uncivil to me. In my two years on these forums I have made it a point to be both nice, and understanding towards other posters and SE.

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if you have 100mil now, then it means you have 1/10 of maximum cap now
if you have 10 mil in ARR,it means you have 1/10 of maximum cap in ARR

with 100k now I can do npc repair 20 times
with 10k in ARR I can do npc repair 20 times

With 1,3 mil now, you can buy ~10 Steel Falchion from NPC http://mooglebox.com/entries/steel-falchion.php
with 130k in ARR,you can buy ~10 steel falchion from NPC

your money changes, but your wealth isnt

It definitely seems like a lot of people are missing the main point. It's not a PUNISHMENT to the wealthy simply an issue of small/big number aesthetic so gil and its' prices are being adjusted accordingly.

Will there be an awkward period with the Market Wards? Of course, but since gil will be unattainable is great amounts (like right now) the Market Wards should stabilize to match the reduction. As many have said before, old prices will be forced down eventually when people refuse to pay for them.

But yea...as for me, I really don't think this whole gil reduction will worry me. I'll be too busy exploring the new mechanics, content, job, etc rather than sitting around in town and complaining about where my money has gone.

You guys are all making a great case for those of us that think "Rich people aren't rich because they're smart."

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Originally Posted by Raldo

If the government re-denominates your money so $10 now equals $1, then the loaf of bread now goes from $1 to $0.10. Your money is still worth ten loaves of bread, and thus, you've lost no equity. This gil re-denomination will not alter your net worth.

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People like the big numbers because it makes them feel better about their <insert joke here>.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

You guys are all making a great case for those of us that think "Rich people aren't rich because they're smart."

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To paraphrase from "Wall Street", Only about a 3rd of the wealth in this country is ever earned anymore. The other 3rd comes from inheritance, idiot sons and widows. And that last 3rd comes from us, the speculators, the traders...

With some people refusing to look at math, I'm assuming they got a pretty nice inheritance here in ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

You guys are all making a great case for those of us that think "Rich people aren't rich because they're smart."

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We're rich because while all of the little ones are playing with their calculators and theories, we know how things work.

Wait until 2.0 and you'll see. Then I'll look down and say "I told you so." But while you sit and gawk at how wrong you were, the moneymakers will be selling you goods at 200-300% of their current worth to line our pockets with gelt.

Yoshida is naive to think that nothing will change except where a decimel point lays.

This thread is full of stupid. All around.

I'd be willing to bet that when 2.0 launches our retainers won't be magically in place with what they were selling on November 1st. Logic dictates that everything will be given back to the retainers leaving players the ability to re-post things once they place their retainer. Most people with half a brain won't rush to post items because we have no clue what their actual value will be until a few months in.

Sometimes I think SE should just do a complete wipe of everything except our levels to iron out all the imbeciles come 2.0. The game would probably be better off because of it.

Finally, I would like to add that this current Atomos event along with people buying up stuff en masse due to fear of their gil being reduced has added so much gil to the market that prices have drastically taken a hike since last Thursday. Trust me, SE does not want anybody new to 2.0 coming around and being discouraged by the rampant greed (myself included) of the players from 1.0. I'm sure 2.0 will have a more controlled economy with cheaper NPC prices and less lucrative quest rewards to make it so that 1 million gil actually means something. No way in hell will they let us upset that plan.

Drop it people we can't do anything about this one. I'll lose a massive amount of money myself but it's for the betterment of the game and the player-base at large.

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Originally Posted by Aion

if you have 100mil now, then it means you have 1/10 of maximum cap now
if you have 10 mil in ARR,it means you have 1/10 of maximum cap in ARR

with 100k now I can do npc repair 20 times
with 10k in ARR I can do npc repair 20 times

With 1,3 mil now, you can buy ~10 Steel Falchion from NPC http://mooglebox.com/entries/steel-falchion.php
with 130k in ARR,you can buy ~10 steel falchion from NPC

your money changes, but your wealth isnt

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You fail to factor in the human influence in the wards. If you buy everything from npcs and get your repairs from npcs, you're doing it wrong anyways.

Lets look at this a different way:
SE wanted to add new, very expensive content. (like huge property and housing)
They wanted to make sure that the super-rich couldnt access it yet, unless completely capped in vanilla FFXIV.

They set the value of the new property at 999,999,990 gil during vanilla ffxiv.

ARR goes live. Everything is cut to 10%, and gil is 10x tougher to earn.

Including the new property, now worth 99,999,999.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

Wait until 2.0 and you'll see. Then I'll look down and say "I told you so." But while you sit and gawk at how wrong you were, the moneymakers will be selling you goods at 200-300% of their current worth to line our pockets with gelt.

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Um, they sell double bound sarngas for 45 mil. right now. Is that what they are worth?

People sell stuff at a price people are willing to buy. If they don't buy, the price will inevitably drop.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Um, they sell double bound sarngas for 45 mil. right now. Is that what they are worth?

People sell stuff at a price people are willing to buy. If they don't buy, the price will inevitably drop.

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Yep. And that will drop to about 3-4m. Maybe less depending on demand. Unless some total idiot buys for 7-9m. lol

HAY GUYS LEMME USE MY ENTIRE PURCHASING POWER TO BUY THIS ITEM!!!

^ You know who does that? Nobody that's who.

ROFL if you think prices at the market are gonna drop, you are all sadly mistaken, and you will either need to level your crafts up to make stuff yourself, or bust your ass to make gil to buy the items at a serious price increase. What some of the posters keep talking about npc prices, who gives a shit about npcs, I am talking players in the market wards, specially the ones that got mugged, are gonna be like after this fiasco and go, "Hmmm I have less now so JACK THE PRICES UP, you want the stuff, too freaking bad, pay my price".

Heck the bed..

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

ROFL if you think prices at the market are gonna drop, you are all sadly mistaken, and you will either need to level your crafts up to make stuff yourself, or bust your ass to make gil to buy the items at a serious price increase. What some of the posters keep talking about npc prices, who gives a shit about npcs, I am talking players in the market wards, specially the ones that got mugged, are gonna be like after this fiasco and go, "Hmmm I have less now so JACK THE PRICES UP, you want the stuff, too freaking bad, pay my price".

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Please just do me one favor and answer 2 simple questions:

Who is going to keep buying items priced at 1.0 or 1.0like amounts?

and

How long will their gil last or sellers are forced to price their things relative to the new gil?

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

ROFL if you think prices at the market are gonna drop, you are all sadly mistaken, and you will either need to level your crafts up to make stuff yourself, or bust your ass to make gil to buy the items at a serious price increase. What some of the posters keep talking about npc prices, who gives a shit about npcs, I am talking players in the market wards, specially the ones that got mugged, are gonna be like after this fiasco and go, "Hmmm I have less now so JACK THE PRICES UP, you want the stuff, too freaking bad, pay my price".

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Let them. And when I sell the exact same items for ARR prices their items will rot on their retainers.

everyone, and they'll be buying gil from RMT company's to afford it, I think they remove all the gil so places like IGN can make money selling, then SE down the road buys em out and makes 2 times the cash.

And the answer to your question is anyone that wants the item, and can not craft it themselves.

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

everyone, and they'll be buying gil from RMT company's to afford it, I think they remove all the gil so places like IGN can make money selling, then SE down the road buys em out and makes 2 times the cash.

And the answer to your question is anyone that wants the item, and can not craft it themselves.

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Anyway I'll say it again, at this point you're either trolling or are beyond comprehension.

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

everyone, and they'll be buying gil from RMT company's to afford it, I think they remove all the gil so places like IGN can make money selling, then SE down the road buys em out and makes 2 times the cash.

And the answer to your question is anyone that wants the item, and can not craft it themselves.

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And there we have it. In Kade's mind its all one epic conspiracy.

Obvious troll is obvious, And entirely incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

You fail to factor in the human influence in the wards. If you buy everything from npcs and get your repairs from npcs, you're doing it wrong anyways.

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Say item x cost 20m in 1.0. Someone want to sell it in ARR for 15m (150m in 1.0). Most players have less than 7m in ARR (70m in 1.0).
The seller can now decrease his price or wait until the players have enough money. But don't forget, we get 1/10 gil from leves, from stuff we sell to npc, from quests, from chests and from monsters (I hope they change the "earn x gil from killing enemies" achievement). It get harder to earn the missing gil to buy the item that cost 15m. So the seller have no other choice than to decrease his price.

if 35 post make me a troll, somehow i don't see it, I have an issue about this thread and loss, people say im not losing but i am, and people like you saying I dont comprehend and antagonizing me about it are just here to piss me off.