Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

That's pretty demoralizing to hear. Are we assuming its going to be the same thing for Cutter's? And we cant work on both locations at once?

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Originally Posted by Len

Maybe the developers will slightly increase the chance to obtain seals; I can't see much else being changed before 2.0.

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A slight increase won't change the fact it's still nothing but a hugely random mechanic

They need to make it a consistant effort for everyone. So everyone who wants it has to put in the same effort as everyone else who wants it.

A slight increase in drops won't change the fact its still an incredibly random process from start to finish. (or at least the point we can get to)

Mwah ha ha still no community dev acknowledgement, I bet they are staying away from this topic like the plague.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Mwah ha ha still no community dev acknowledgement, I bet they are staying away from this topic like the plague.

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it was addressed in interviews, theres no reason for them to repeat answers over and over for those who dont want to accept them

Step 1 - Earn 25,000 seals and buy the key item "On the Properties of Beastmen"

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Step 2 - Obtain Inferno Seal x3, Tremor Seal x3, Vortex Seal x3 from Rank 2 Hamlet (gold chest requiring 60K+ scores) [<-- Note: Random Number Generator. Blind Luck on getting drops for yourself (or getting Dark Matter).]

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Thats the Deal of most Chest-Systems. Want it to be 100%? I dont want to. And i actually saw people getting 1 Seal in 1 run, while others got their first after 10 Runs. It is luck, yes.. but it can be done in a couple days.

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Step 5 - Gather HQ mats and craft or buy Class-Only Weapons (preferably HQ) [<-- Note: Random Number Generator. Blind Luck on getting the HQ Materials from gathering, and even the Final Synth isn't a guaranteed 100% for most crafters, so you're rolling the dice.]

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No.. There is no Random Number Generator on getting HQ-Mats. Its all about having the Gear to improve your HQ-Rate. Its simple. The Final Synth isnt 100%? Im pretty glad it isnt lol. With full HQ-Mats ( flawless counts as NQ tho ) you can actually get easy to around 50%+, which is a pretty big Number.

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Step 6 - Double meld the gear with 2 Tier IV Materia of a specific Type as follows: [<-- Note: Random Number Generator. Blind Luck on getting roll for Double Melding this already painful synth.]

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There are TONS of people allready which got Double-Melded Class-Weapons, so it cant be that bad, no?

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Step 8 - Gather 3 Materials from 6th Chest available at end of AV and CC Run
Items: Miser's Mythril (Aurum Vale), Alumina Salts (Cutter's Cry) [<-- Note: Random Number Generator. Blind Luck on getting drops for yourself (or getting Dark Matter).]

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So.. Step 8.. Since i see a lot people are at Step 8.. so what was the Point about the 7 Step's before and HOW BAD, AND TIMECONSUMING they are? Patch is out a 7 days and people are on Step 8, if i could choose i would make the whole Progress even slower.

At this Rate and assuming that the whole Progress we can make now is like 25% of the whole Questline, then 4 Weeks to get a Relic is way to fast. nuff said.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

it was addressed in interviews, theres no reason for them to repeat answers over and over for those who dont want to accept them

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Problem is that the answer he gave was still too vague. Why do we have a successful token based system in Garuda, but not dungeons or use this method in relics? The systems are there, yet they still throw in just the RNG system that no one likes. I would halfway understand if the token system didn't exist in Garuda, but it does, and it only makes us question SE's methods of being properly rewarded for our time.

Here is the real question I want to know: Why does a person who does half the effort as me getting Darklight gear gets the full set when I am left with only one pair of gloves? I pretty much did dungeons almost every night and most of the day on weekends from the beginning of 1.21 to 1.22b. At least 5-6 runs of CC and AV a night, about 7-8 on on weekend dates. Why does Joe Blow who puts no where near the effort I do get a full set? I won't say he doesn't deserve it, but this is a gigantic flaw in the system that can be easily fixed, but they won't. They are too stubborn.

In MMO's, you always must be rewarded for your time in some shape or form, rather it be tokens or get the drops you want. SE does not look at MMO's like this and because of it, people are getting sick of their game and some are quitting till 2.0 just because of it.

No one likes it, and I feel that SE needs to come out and give a detailed explanation on why they believe this is the right system, or people will only continue to call them out on this. Despite the answer they give, it needs to change now and not 2.0. Using a system as bad as this is simple inexcusable. People can argue with me on that if they wish, but only lucky ones are rewarded, not the people who sweat blood for this game.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Problem is that the answer he gave was still too vague. Why do we have a successful token based system in Garuda, but not dungeons or use this method in relics? The systems are there, yet they still throw in just the RNG system that no one likes. I would halfway understand if the token system didn't exist in Garuda, but it does, and it only makes us question SE's methods of being properly rewarded for our time.

Here is the real question I want to know: Why does a person who does half the effort as me getting Darklight gear gets the full set when I am left with only one pair of gloves? I pretty much did dungeons almost every night and most of the day on weekends from the beginning of 1.21 to 1.22b. At least 5-6 runs of CC and AV a night, about 7-8 on on weekend dates. Why does Joe Blow who puts no where near the effort I do get a full set? I won't say he doesn't deserve it, but this is a gigantic flaw in the system that can be easily fixed, but they won't. They are too stubborn.

In MMO's, you always must be rewarded for your time in some shape or form, rather it be tokens or get the drops you want. SE does not look at MMO's like this and because of it, people are getting sick of their game and some are quitting till 2.0 just because of it.

No one likes it, and I feel that SE needs to come out and give a detailed explanation on why they believe this is the right system, or people will only continue to call them out on this. Despite the answer they give, it needs to change now and not 2.0. Using a system as bad as this is simple inexcusable. People can argue with me on that if they wish, but only lucky ones are rewarded, not the people who sweat blood for this game.

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ok going over some stuff your saying here

i gotta ask, do you even do hamlet? do you do these dungeons? we are rewarded for our time and effort, thats the thing, but people are ignoring all rewards but the one they specificaly want like they dont exist

when you do a 60k hamlet run, you can get 1-4 drops from the chest, and 1 of them "might" be a seal, this means that you are ALWAYS rewarded for doing a 60k run, but peopel choose to ignore this fact

when you complete CC and AV you got your boss chests rewards, also something people majorly ignore

its not that people arent getting rewarded, they just arent always getting the drop they specificaly want, which is nothing new to MMOs

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

ok going over some stuff your saying here

i gotta ask, do you even do hamlet? do you do these dungeons? we are rewarded for our time and effort, thats the thing, but people are ignoring all rewards but the one they specificaly want like they dont exist

when you do a 60k hamlet run, you can get 1-4 drops from the chest, and 1 of them "might" be a seal, this means that you are ALWAYS rewarded for doing a 60k run, but peopel choose to ignore this fact

when you complete CC and AV you got your boss chests rewards, also something people majorly ignore

its not that people arent getting rewarded, they just arent always getting the drop they specificaly want, which is nothing new to MMOs

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As I have said in previous posts I don't have anything against Hamlet, I only question proper distribution based on points, but the system itself is not that bad.

Even in 1.18, the system worked there. All the best items in the game were on a fair loot table, while there was only a certain chance the piece you wanted dropped, it still played in fair game with the other pieces. "Someone" walked out happy.

Problem with 1.21 dungeons, they put pieces in there clearly better than what the green items offer, yet never drop. It doesn't play fair game, the chance to get a Darklight isn't equaled out with the other drops. Now it is understandable to an extent that Darklight would drop too often if it was made that way. However, Darklight is what people want, SE knows this, and there isn't truly a fair system on it's distribution, because effort is not rewarded properly. Simply adding in a token system would solve all these problems and people like myself would not gripe about this.

While I wasn't able to explain in such a great way what I said above, I tried, lol.

There needs to be balance between luck and hard work. Right now, the side is all on luck.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

ok going over some stuff your saying here

i gotta ask, do you even do hamlet? do you do these dungeons? we are rewarded for our time and effort, thats the thing, but people are ignoring all rewards but the one they specificaly want like they dont exist

when you do a 60k hamlet run, you can get 1-4 drops from the chest, and 1 of them "might" be a seal, this means that you are ALWAYS rewarded for doing a 60k run, but peopel choose to ignore this fact

when you complete CC and AV you got your boss chests rewards, also something people majorly ignore

its not that people arent getting rewarded, they just arent always getting the drop they specificaly want, which is nothing new to MMOs

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He said he's been grinding them pretty much non stop so it's obvious he is doing them...

As for drops if its not what you need to progress in what you aim to progress on then its crap. like I said earlier with that logic then everyones always getting rewarded everytime the do ifrit or moogle they're always getting dark matter and 5-6k but thats not the reason people go to those fights.

In a sense anything that isnt dark light from av/cc is no better than dark matter from iffy/moogle. you spam av/cc for darklight that is "the" reward everything else is irrelevant.

it's kinda like going to work. you go to get paid then your boss says im not paying you this month but here have 2 theatre tickets to make up for it. wtf???? (it's a cack example but i think it illustrates the point pretty well)

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Originally Posted by Nero

No.. There is no Random Number Generator on getting HQ-Mats. Its all about having the Gear to improve your HQ-Rate. Its simple.

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Hi Nero,

That's simply not true. It *is* still a dice roll if you get an HQ Mat or not when you Gather / Chop / Strike, etc. As someone who loves Botanist (been playing as one since Day 1 of this game), I can tell you even with the most Perception and Output I can get (outside the new Hamlet Hat that increases HQ drop), I can still go 1.5 - 2 HOURS with 0 (ZERO) Crawler Cocoon +1s, then on other nights, I've gotten *2* Crawler Cocoon +1's back-to-back within 15 MINUTES of me starting to gather.

I can get ZERO Supple Spruce Branches +1 for an hour or two, and then another night, I can get 10(!) Supple Spruce Branches +1 on 1 chop, and have gotten ~24 HQs in the span of a 2 hour gather period.

How is that NOT random?

It is.

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Originally Posted by Psion

I'm in favor of a karma system myself: same low drop rates, but for each run you do without getting the drop, the odds of it dropping go up for you. So if it starts out at a 1% drop rate, and you don't get the item that run, the next time you win, it will be a 2% drop rate, and if you fail, a 3% drop rate, and so on, until you get the drop. Then it will reset to its base % rate.

This essentially is a points based system, but it still has a factor of luck. In this case however, there's no such thing as "bad luck" where you can go for thousands of runs without getting what you need: eventually, it WILL hit 100% drop rate and you will get the item.

You can adjust the base drop rate and % it goes up by accordingly, depending on how rare you want the item to be.

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Hi Psion,

Thanks for the thoughts. This is a good "safety net" compromise if Yoshida-san and company still are dead-set on keeping Luck / Gambling / Dice Rolls as the main distribution method in the Relic & future content (I really hope not :(). But yah, a Karma System where the game tracks every time you didn't get the drop, and incremented a higher percentage each time until you reached 100% helps.

It's still not a perfect solution, though, since we've all seen unlucky Dice Rolls hit us badly even at high percentages (e.g., Crafting HQ Chance 90% -> Fail -> Double Down -> Fail). So until it truly hit "100%" there might be people getting unlucky rolls for quite a while (but it will provide a limit / safety net for # of times of bad luck until you finally get the drop).

I think we're going a bit too far if we're complaining about HQ rate during gathering. Theres nothing wrong with that.

The uproar really needs to be around the AV/CC part of this relic quest.

The thing that gets me is I know our Linkshell will no life the hell out of AV. We'll get the Mythrils and move on to CC and then they will nerf the drop rate making them much easier to obtain. 0/56 or so for most people. That's a LOT of time for nothing. Also there's going to be that one guy who's stuck at 1/3 or 2/3 while everyone else is done and there will be nothing we can do to help him.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Nero,

That's simply not true. It *is* still a dice roll if you get an HQ Mat or not when you Gather / Chop / Strike, etc.

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It really doesnt matter. You can IMPROVE those "roll" with the correct gear, which makes it not random. ITs a steady roll-system which you have influence on. I know what you are aiming at, but that doesnt go for a System which you can simply change by adding certain pieces of Gear. And if you dont get a single +1 after aprox. 2 hours then there is something wrong... either in Gear or no clue what you are doing wrong. i aprox get like 5-10 +1 in 2 hours on Botany and also Mining.. and im not doing it Hardcore. And there is also a "HQ Rate +10" Item.. not only the Hamlet Hat", you also got that bracelet?

Im also doing Botany, Mining and Fishing since Day 1 and also the System got changed a lot. Its way more balanced then it was back in the day, where you got "randomly" +2 and +3 without having an Gear on. That is what i would call random.

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How is that NOT random?

It is.

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No idea what to tell you, but the rate you have doesnt really look how it should be and its different for me. And since i also can see what other peoples mine/log i can tell you that most of them get at least one +1 out of 2-3 Logpoints/Miningpoints.

Gathering HQ shouldn't be an issue that's not what this thread should be talking about + Hamlet has that 10% HQ rate head gear to help just a little bit more.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Gathering HQ shouldn't be an issue that's not what this thread should be talking about + Hamlet has that 10% HQ rate head gear to help just a little bit more.

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True that... well my whole Point is that People are allready at "Step 8" of that Questline after Patch beeing out 1 Week. That makes it really "fast" imo. Of course we dont know how much more Step's we have to do with upcoming Patches, but for now i dont see any Problems with the Progress. May some people dont like it in the Forum ( 3% Poll ), but i dont think "Relics", "Legendary Weapons" or w/e you want to call it, should be obtainable by anyone. It should be a long Process for those who want to put the Time into it.

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Originally Posted by Nero

. . . It should be a long Process for those who want to put the Time into it.

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Bingo, but having certain parts rely heavily on pure luck completely goes against this notion. The AV/CC parts specifically.

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Originally Posted by Nero

True that... well my whole Point is that People are allready at "Step 8" of that Questline after Patch beeing out 1 Week. That makes it really "fast" imo. Of course we dont know how much more Step's we have to do with upcoming Patches, but for now i dont see any Problems with the Progress. May some people dont like it in the Forum ( 3% Poll ), but i dont think "Relics", "Legendary Weapons" or w/e you want to call it, should be obtainable by anyone. It should be a long Process for those who want to put the Time into it.

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Have to remember most of those people were gathering seals before then and had them ready to go before 1.22b came in. You are right, they should be a hard process and not just anyone should have it. However, the relic process isn't for the hard working, it is for the lucky. The lucky ones get the items required to progress.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

ok going over some stuff your saying here

i gotta ask, do you even do hamlet? do you do these dungeons? we are rewarded for our time and effort, thats the thing, but people are ignoring all rewards but the one they specificaly want like they dont exist

when you do a 60k hamlet run, you can get 1-4 drops from the chest, and 1 of them "might" be a seal, this means that you are ALWAYS rewarded for doing a 60k run, but peopel choose to ignore this fact

when you complete CC and AV you got your boss chests rewards, also something people majorly ignore

its not that people arent getting rewarded, they just arent always getting the drop they specificaly want, which is nothing new to MMOs

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I see your point but again that is not why players go do the dungeons. I have done av and cc since it came out, and all I have to show for it is 1 darklight piece. Seriously if every player got awarded points for meetting certain requirements, I would have every damn piece of darklight. It has gotten to the point that I dont give a damn about cc and av I have done it to death.


Now with regards to the other things that drop in those 2 raids/dungeon, REALLY the market is flooded with this crap gear. Most of the group I run with all we do is either sell it to a npc or if the price is decent put it up on the wards. Now in regards to the dark matter or g5 wtf do I need more and more of that for? Seriously I have stacks, I dont need more it will take me forever to use it all, and again just pop up in the wards and sell it.


The bottom line is players are not rewarded for their time or effort that they put into this game. When you run a dungeon or hamlet or whatever, if the items dont drop or rarely drop there is no progress, it is actually negative progress because you are not doing anything to improve your character. Now lets not forget that there are 7 other players after those items as well.


Now the hamlets thats still another spammable content that even with a 60k plus score, I have seen 0 thats right 0 seals drop and not just for 1 run only. I have seen 0 seal drops on multiple 60k plus score wins in a row. The militia gear isnt that great, and the reason is if players can get the darklight gear it is better than the militia gear. Theres very little worth haveing that drop from hamlets except for a few of the items. Now lets not forget most of the miltia gear is U/U. This content isnt hard NOR is it challenging.


I am tired of players defending the rng or blink luck systems that are in place now. This type of reward system needs to go except for a very very few events. Now by that I mean HNM or what have you, but again there are none in FFXIV nor have they added any, in any of the last patches.


1 final thought and that is in regards to the relic weapons. I know a player who has spent 40 mil trying to double meld for his relic. Now whats wrong with this picture? Something of this magnitute should not rely on blink luck, to complete. The content isnt hard, it isnt challenging at all. Things should be difficult and show progression, but again they dont. Now I dont care what excus or excuess players or SE can come up with, the bottom line is still the same SE and the Devs need to get off their collective asses and come up with a system that shows progression and actually rewards players for their time, effort and hard work. There are other systems that could be use OR they can make a completely new system IF they get off their back sides and do it!!!!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

it was addressed in interviews, theres no reason for them to repeat answers over and over for those who dont want to accept them

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w/e Vedis, some of us don't want to wait until 2.0 for this issue to be sorted out, some of us want to actually enjoy the game right now.

This whole random loot thing has been a thorn in our sides since Ifrit, you might be willing to shrug it off but as you can clearly see by the complaints in this thread many are not.

331 likes. Go go people! :)

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Have to remember most of those people were gathering seals before then and had them ready to go before 1.22b came in. You are right, they should be a hard process and not just anyone should have it. However, the relic process isn't for the hard working, it is for the lucky. The lucky ones get the items required to progress.

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Ok lets imagine SE would go a total hard way.

I.E.

1. Get 70k in Hamlet ( lets assume this would be a 100% Win, with all possible Points )

For that you get 100% a Seal

2. Use those Seals to Craft a "Special Weapon", HQ mats are needed as well etc.

3. Slay one of the Stronghold bosses with that Weapon.

YOU have to be the one to kill it and the Weapon have to be equipped the whole fight. ( Stats are crappy, since unfinished ).
Reward will be an Item for a Synth.

4. Now you make a Craft with your unfinished weapon and that Item to get Upgrade 1. ( Lets say the whole Process would take 10 Upgrades )

and so on and so on...

I would bet all my Gil that half of the Forum bitch about it. "NO ITS TO HARD".. bla bla. There is no way which everyone will like, there are always people which dont like a certain way.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Ok lets imagine SE would go a total hard way.

I.E.

1. Get 70k in Hamlet ( lets assume this would be a 100% Win, with all possible Points )

For that you get 100% a Seal

2. Use those Seals to Craft a "Special Weapon", HQ mats are needed as well etc.

3. Slay one of the Stronghold bosses with that Weapon.

YOU have to be the one to kill it and the Weapon have to be equipped the whole fight. ( Stats are crappy, since unfinished ).
Reward will be an Item for a Synth.

4. Now you make a Craft with your unfinished weapon and that Item to get Upgrade 1. ( Lets say the whole Process would take 10 Upgrades )

and so on and so on...

I would bet all my Gil that half of the Forum bitch about it. "NO ITS TO HARD".. bla bla. There is no way which everyone will like, there are always people which dont like a certain way.

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I doubt it. I don't believe many here complain about the content being difficult. The biggest complaint about the Relic Quest right now is the RNG system. That the process itself is not hard, but the luck factor is the "only" thing making it difficult.

In FFXI, you had to gather the currency going through a considered difficult instance and only had access to that specific Dynamis once every three days. You were guaranteed currency for your time assuming you had a good party rolling. And then the last stages of the relic were pretty insane. It was a process that wasn't based off someone's luck, but their hard dedication and work towards it.

People accepted in FFXI that not just anyone can get the relic and it is for the most top notch of players. People would accept this in FFXIV also if done similarly, unfortunately it doesn't. Not a single thing is difficult in FFXIV's process, it is only tedious with the RNG system. Right now, the state of mind in FFXIV is that you can get it if you are lucky, but are you willing to deal with the crappy chances?

I really like the relic system the way it is now. Easier then what it was in say ffxi or some other games... yes there is random luck in getting it! But it shouldn't be just handed to you. Working for something as good as a relic should take time and effort and a bit of luck! Think about when you equip your relic for the first time how much more rewarding it will be knowing it wasn't just given to you. Yeah double melding sucks... but if you really have that much of a issues with it farm up the gil and buy one premade. I'm happy that it doesn't require loads of friends and people farming currency for a small chance that a linkshell will support you. This is easily more obtainable to the casual players and also sets the good/noobs apart. Noobs are gonna be able to kill AV/CC mobs. Think about it getting this weapon means your in the top percentile. Like a rattata :O

People bitched about how hard Crafting is.
People bitched about how hard SP-Progress is.
People bitched about how this Game is not Casual.
People bitched about how hard Garuda is ( still is? ).
People bitched about this and that and everything.. do i have to keep going?

Like i said.. there are always people which dont like a certain way, personally i think the current way is to fast.

FFXI? I have no clue how it is working now. But when i worked on my Relic ( which was like 7 Years ago ), it was also based on a lot of luck. The Currency you needed have to Drop first, and 100's didnt drop very often which you needed at least 12 of to get 3rd Stage. You needed Gil to sponsor a Run and actually a Good LS which were able to beat certain Areas for specific Items you need. ( Most regular LS wouldnt go a different way just to get 1 Items for 1 Person ). I know that since it took a while to get the LS going for Attestation Stuff. At that Point a Relic was about 120.000.000 Mil in total. You got some of the Currency back in the End... but yeah.. it took a lot of Gil and a lot of people and a lot of Time ( Years ) back in the day.

so you are saying you would take a "Rich Boy System", over a "Get Lucky System"?

I hope people know that the new system will most likely be just as grindy as the current, just with consistent rewards rather than RNG rewards.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

I hope people know that the new system will most likely be just as grindy as the current, just with consistent rewards rather than RNG rewards.

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Isn't that how all MMO's work?

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

I think we're going a bit too far if we're complaining about HQ rate during gathering. Theres nothing wrong with that.

The uproar really needs to be around the AV/CC part of this relic quest.

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This is how I'm feeling now after doing a few Hamlets and going 3/4 seals with a nice group and reading about the drop rate on THAT stage of the quest. That's probably the part that definitely needs to let you feel some progress. While it might cheapen the effort people have put in so far to make the drop rate 100% and just increase how much mythril you need, I personally would not have any issues with it as the current drop rate is apparently abysmal and I couldn't imagine trying to do it for a whole group of people.

I can't see any implementation that would allow for relic weapons to be rare that wouldn't lead to just as much complaining. If it's something rare, based on a low chance, then people complain about RNG. If it requires grinding some kind of points, an amount that would encourage few to have the item, then everyone would complain it's too grindy. If it requires you beat some nearly impossible boss, then people would complain its too hard/overtuned.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

I can't see any implementation that would allow for relic weapons to be rare that wouldn't lead to just as much complaining. If it's something rare, based on a low chance, then people complain about RNG. If it requires grinding some kind of points, an amount that would encourage few to have the item, then everyone would complain it's too grindy. If it requires you beat some nearly impossible boss, then people would complain its too hard/overtuned.

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Yet which one would you take? I would take grinding over pulling a lever on a slot machine any day.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

I think we're going a bit too far if we're complaining about HQ rate during gathering. Theres nothing wrong with that.

The uproar really needs to be around the AV/CC part of this relic quest.

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I humbly disagree. I think the 'uproar' really should be about having to repeat any small 15-30 minute content 50 times. A more enjoyable experience, in my opinion, would be to repeat 150-300 minute content 5 times.

I think this is the route planend for Crystal Tower?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

w/e Vedis, some of us don't want to wait until 2.0 for this issue to be sorted out, some of us want to actually enjoy the game right now.

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They can not be expected to make everything perfect over night. That is asking too much. Hopefuly what they have improved so far over the last 6-9 months will seem significant enough for you to have more enjoyment than before.

On the plus side........

Less complaints about DL drop rates.

On a side note: If they increase the seal drop rate in hamlet defense, then won't there be a lot of unhappy people in a few weeks when they keep getting seals (they no longer need) rather than one of the nice militia items?

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I humbly disagree. I think the 'uproar' really should be about having to repeat any small 15-30 minute content 50 times. A more enjoyable experience, in my opinion, would be to repeat 150-300 minute content 5 times.

I think this is the route planend for Crystal Tower?

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That would make it not casual friendly and high inaccessible for most players.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

That would make it not casual friendly and high inaccessible for most players.

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Casual players can't live without all the content in a game being accessible to them?

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

That would make it not casual friendly and high inaccessible for most players.

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True, but is it a requirement that all content be accessible to casual and dedicated players? And if so, is it to be at the cost of enjoyment to the dedicated player (as it is now with doing the same dungeon 100 time)?

Also, per the player poll, it would not be inaccessible for most players. A large chunk of players do play 2+ hours per day (with many doing 4+ hours).

It is not unreasonable for them to say: Okey, Thursday night, I can use content manager and dedicate 4 hours tonight to finishing crystal tower.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Casual players can't live without all the content in a game being accessible to them?

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This wouldn't be a problem if we had raid IDs and a reason to schedule raid nights in some capacity. If the crystal tower at release has, say, 15 floors (3 bosses, 12 sub bosses, each with their own loot pools) and reset on monday at 00:01 AM JST, then you can have people progress as much as they can over several days rather than being stuck to their chair for 3-4 hours, spam that same event and deal with crappy drop rates. You might be in a shell that can hardcore it up and do the whole thing in one sitting, just like you'd have the casual shell that may do 5 floors per raid night.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Casual players can't live without all the content in a game being accessible to them?

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Isn't this what cause the whining to begin with...................... it's not casual friendly......? it takes years for casual? lol and now you want to add something to alieniate them? and if they can live with not everything in game in accessible, this thread won't appear.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

True, but is it a requirement that all content be accessible to casual and dedicated players? And if so, is it to be at the cost of enjoyment to the dedicated player (as it is now with doing the same dungeon 100 time)?

Also, per the player poll, it would not be inaccessible for most players. A large chunk of players do play 2+ hours per day (with many doing 4+ hours).

It is not unreasonable for them to say: Okey, Thursday night, I can use content manager and dedicate 4 hours tonight to finishing crystal tower.

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I don't see how alieniate majority of your playerbase will do this game any good, right now we only have to deal with RNG, but everyone can participate in finishing relic because even if you only have 1hr of playtime, you can still do a hamlet.

It will take long time but it won't be inaccessible for them. I am not casual btw, but this game needs players, alieniate them isnt the way to go, current system might frustates people, but people can just not do it if they feel its not worth their time, like me.

But it doesn't alieniate anyone.

I don't think drop rates in FFXIV are as bad as people say they are. I pugged the mog fight for about 2 weeks and then was 7/7 for weapons. If you do whatever it is you eventually get the drops.

These relics can be obtained if you are casual and hardcore sure it might take longer but that's why you are casual... They aren't gonna make 2 seperate relic quests for casuals/not and it's really the EASIEST mmo to get a relic in. If you are on for a hour. Depending on your group you could do mulitple AV/CC/Hamlet, could even spiritbond to get your materia... Why do casuals always complain when the game is designed to be able to get good gear on casual/hardcore. Just cause it takes you month(s) longer doesn't mean to complain ; ;. If you have a issue become hardcore :P That's all I am saying about the casual/hardcore comments...

Also I am bored maintence is boring xD