In Regard to Housing in Patch 4.1

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Originally Posted by Abelfei

No one said server erros were " part of the game " thats just an irresponsible quote. I did in fact in fact imply that some getting plots and some not was part of the game, but good job with the context there. Login errors didnt pick random players, they happened to everyone, and randomly. If you got one you werent special, you were normal.

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If you worked that hard and didn't get one it's not the systems fault, it's yours along with some chance. Thats part of the game.

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you then said

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You can't blame login issues cause everyone was subject to the same login process.

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Which you most certainly can blame log in issues, which are NOT part of the game. But hey everyone gets the same chance of hitting that error, which you imply whether you meant to or not, is part of the game.

And log in errors were random.

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Login errors didnt pick random players, they happened to everyone, and randomly.

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So they happened to everyone but randomly? But they didnt pick random players?

The errors that occured were most definitely random in whom they happened too. However the biggest one seemed to affect mostly PS4 players. Which are already gimped in load times if people don't upgrade their hard drives. So its never truly equal now is it?

Location, ping, servers, hardware. The housing system is not an equal process. Someone will always benefit over others. If you got an error on top of this lack of equality, it definitely made you not special, but the unluckiest person out there. anything but normal.

However, your logic is one that cannot be argued with. So enjoy the houses you bought from flippers....where you thereby contributed to the problem....instead of using the system as intended like you like implying...

@ Abelfei. Are you for real? You are clearly blind by the issues that are housing
I have been trying since housing was released to get a house (usually more wards are added while i am at work)
This time i took holiday and logged on time only to be in a queue of 1700 people...
Hell some people were in a Queue of under 400 and ended up with a error and had to re-log in.

I worked hard to save up around 25mil gil and all for nothing. And to be clear i just saved up the 25 mil from the period of a few months before Stormblood hit, i spent my gil from the other years i failed to obtain a home.
The system is very broken. I will repeat myself from other posts i had done in that Eso which i have played less then a year i got a large home 2 months after housing was implemented with no issue. Here cannot even get it over 3 years after the fact..
A instanced and non-instanced mix is the solution to much of the problems.

Until people stop kissing __ we will never see real solutions

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Originally Posted by Abelfei

Buy a 2nd account?

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Okay this guy is trolling. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Maero

I worked hard to save up around 25mil gil and all for nothing. And to be clear i just saved up the 25 mil from the period of a few months before Stormblood hit, i spent my gil from the other years i failed to obtain a home.
The system is very broken. I will repeat myself from other posts i had done in that Eso which i have played less then a year i got a large home 2 months after housing was implemented with no issue. Here cannot even get it over 3 years after the fact..
A instanced and non-instanced mix is the solution to much of the problems.

Until people stop kissing __ we will never see real solutions

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I feel your pain, I don't have quite as much gil as you, but more than enough for a small house, and I ended up having the exact same problem as you :(

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Originally Posted by Vivi239

I feel your pain, I don't have quite as much gil as you, but more than enough for a small house, and I ended up having the exact same problem as you :(

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Yep it sucks. I know next patch (or the one after that, not sure) they are adding more wards but that simply means another disapointment. I am just going to use my gil for glams and such now. Mot confident in housing anymore :(

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Originally Posted by Maero

Yep it sucks. I know next patch (or the one after that, not sure) they are adding more wards but that simply means another disapointment. I am just going to use my gil for glams and such now. Mot confident in housing anymore :(

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We can always hope for change, but I've learned to keep my expectations low.

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Originally Posted by Abelfei

]Everyone who dislikes the housing system usually is someone who didn't put in the time or effort like others have, or got "screwed" at a housing release.

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I managed to snag my self a house in Shirogane, and I put time and effort to decorate my house, my apartment, and my FC Room. But still, I disagree.
Yes, I worked hard to get a house in Shirogane, taking a paid vacation, logged in and got hit by lobby error, and got 1,016 players in queue message after the third login attempt, and I ran for it to snag a house. THAT is not the image of "working hard" I feel proud of doing. It's more of a hassle caused by a broken system and I just happened to get lucky.

Heres my idea on how the wards should be added and sold

50 wards are gonna be released in each city

For the first hour ..
1-Wards 1-10 FC's with out a house only
2-Wards 11-20 FC transfer only
3-Wards 21-30 Players with out a house
4-Wards 31-40 Players transfering there house
5-Wards 41-50 free for all
After the first hour all wards become free for all

Keep in that thats each city so thats 12,000 plots (2,400 in each of the 5 restrctions)

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Originally Posted by Abelfei

The housing system is more fine than it is broken. Everyone with a house feels its fine because they worked hard for it and earned it with saavy and time. Everyone who dislikes the housing system usually is someone who didn't put in the time or effort like others have, or got "screwed" at a housing release. Square knows exactly what they are doing with housing, and its why most people play the game. Making housing "un-elite" will ruin the game, and thus ruin why housing is popular in the first place. The only reason people want them is because they are rare and represent status and hard work. I have overpaid for a small, 10 million for small Goblet. I have overpaid for a medium, 90 million for medium Mist.

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How about not throwing everyone to a certain side? I own a house and I still feel that this system is horrible and completely unfair. Also there is no "effort" with housing just pure luck. Everyone can increase their gil to be able to buy their dream house in this game. Heck yesterday my retainer just brought me one of the full house decorations back which is selling for 17 million right now. If this one item will sell then I already have near enough for a middle house. Its not hard or such a great effort to buy a house in this game..the problem comes with the limit on the amount of houses and there is no effort in getting one. Either you got lucky and got through or you dont. There is no skill involved with that...

Also I am kinda not sure how many people truly see them as status symbols. I dont, because they did not need any kind of skill just luck to get and thus there is nothing to show. I dare to say that most people simply want their little home in this world where they can decorate, or RP, or do other stuff with it and lots of FC probably also just want one for having a place to meet and be able to use the workshop.

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Originally Posted by Abelfei

If you worked that hard and didn't get one it's not the systems fault, it's yours along with some chance. Thats part of the game. Alot of people make gil, alot of people play alot. Because they got one and you didn't you are mad. If you got one you wouldn't be mad. This is FFXIV, not any other game, so it should be held to its own standards. If you think the amount of houses is too low, maybe you should work harder at getting one, like the people who got one did? You can't blame login issues cause everyone was subject to the same login process. Everyone played by the same rules. Not everyone is going to get a house, sorry. I bought my plots from friends who have played since 1.0, because they got new ones. You could do the same, but only seem content with getting one the easy way instead of working for it like everyone else.

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What skill does it need to get a house? Be able to log in to the game and click on the plot? I mean seriously..there is nothing hard about that..the only reason many people dont have one is the limit and no amount of "skill" can change that. Many people did not even get the chance to race to their houses with others thanks to the bad servers, so how is it skill to just be lucky? Also how should people work harder to get one if there is none left? Buy them from those horrible resellers? You simply cant do anything if there is no plot left. You also did not work for your plots. You just got lucky that your friends didnt need them anymore and thus was able to get them quite easily. Barely anyone will have friends that are just waiting to release their houses..please stop calling something like that hard work or skill. Its luck nothing more.

Also here you say that you got them from friends and yet in another post you wrote that you paid for overpriced housing. Either you have some really mean friends or you are just not telling the truth here and just try to stir up some trouble. :(

Naoki Yoshida is heading to London for special autograph and Q & A session for people who are selected. Perhaps people can go ask him directly?

My housing solution:

1) Return all money and items to all players and reset all plots.
2) Make FC-Wards (better for Gaming) and Player-Wards (better for RPing)
All housing limited to one house/per account.
FC-Housing: Raise an FC's Level up, get an option to buy an FC-House using FC points/money, etc (Internal FC Function) //Now all FC's have a housing option without it being centered on player.
3) Have the Data-Centers run Dynamically-Allocated Housing Server Clusters for all worlds that are in the Data Center. (Housing availability for all)

Why?
Fairness. FC-House availability should have always been through the panel, and not through an individual player. Other games have it right. Individual Player room for housing, Entire Guild Halls for Guilds to reflect their size. FCs should have something to reflect their large size beyond a house!

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Originally Posted by Stabby-Chan

(tfr)

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There are immediate issues with this proposed solution.

1) This penalizes the vast majority of people who did not buy more than one plot. For example, I would lose the plot I worked for two months to acquire. I have done nothing to deserve this, so it would be unfair.
2) There's a real concern about server resources being squandered with parallel wards being opened. The more wards added, the more server resources used. Can you explain how your solution would avoid this issue?
3) Now there's a pressing, perhaps fatal concern. Housing for all on a game with 10 million registered users would be ENORMOUSLY expensive, and that money would have to come from somewhere. Do you have an idea of a dollar figure on this?


Thank you for allowing me to state my concerns with your proposal. I look forward to your reply.

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Originally Posted by Stabby-Chan

My housing solution:

1) Return all money and items to all players and reset all plots.

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Yes lets punish all house owners even more because SE created a bad system. There are still lots of people that only have one house or maybe one private and one FC house. Your solution would punish all of them. Also if they create an dynamic housing system that adds wards if they are full (which is probably not possible with the system right now since they are probably really stressing on the servers) why would they even need to take the houses away in the first place? Just introduce the rule with the 1 personal 1 FC house and have dynamic wards after that.

Also I know games like Wildstars and Rift where you can have at least one nice personal house/dimension (in Rift you can have like 20 active dimensions or something like that) so why should be only stick to a lesser system if they could introduce something that would be good for people and FC?

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Originally Posted by Calteru

There are immediate issues with this proposed solution.

3) Now there's a pressing, perhaps fatal concern. Housing for all on a game with 10 million registered users would be ENORMOUSLY expensive, and that money would have to come from somewhere. Do you have an idea of a dollar figure on this?

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We do not have 10 million people playing the game right now. Probably not even 1 million of active players. Also other games can do that fine. The problem in this one are the wards themselves. Since they are always existing even if nobody is in there, they eat quite the resources. Having completely instanced houses would take away from that quite a lot and should make it possible for everyone owning a house (heck even owning one in each zone). Dynamical wards are probably not that good because they would take more resources but if they want to stick to their faulty system then they either need to put more money in it and truly create such a system or they will always leave behind a quite angry customer base.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

We do not have 10 million people playing the game right now. Probably not even 1 million of active players. Also other games can do that fine. The problem in this one are the wards themselves. Since they are always existing even if nobody is in there, they eat quite the resources. Having completely instanced houses would take away from that quite a lot and should make it possible for everyone owning a house (heck even owning one in each zone).

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If you would be so kind as to quantify your response with some hard data, I'd sincerely appreciate it. Specifically, I need an accurate count of daily active players, a list of some "other games" that can "do that fine", and an understanding of how fully instanced housing can populate for people who don't own said house, yet still have the permission to use it, when the owner is not online. Thanks in advance!

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Originally Posted by Calteru

If you would be so kind as to quantify your response with some hard data, I'd sincerely appreciate it. Specifically, I need an accurate count of daily active players, a list of some "other games" that can "do that fine", and an understanding of how fully instanced housing can populate for people who don't own said house, yet still have the permission to use it, when the owner is not online. Thanks in advance!

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FFXIV census as of September shows about 10-25 k of active players per server. They have a website.

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Originally Posted by Abelfei

FFXIV census as of September shows about 10-25 k of active players per server. They have a website.

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Unofficial, but that's one question sort-of answered. At least we have some kind of datapoint to start with.

Now. What's the cost per-person in terms of bandwidth usage? Adding more stuff will add to bandwidth. We'll also need some kind of idea of how the server would respond to having fully instanced housing.

Before suggesting something, it would save a lot of time and effort if we had some idea of how a proposed solution would WORK.

Also missing: The list of "other games" doing this, and some kind of idea of how FI housing would populate for people authed to used the property but not owning it themselves. (This in particular is crucial information. If we're looking at, say, how SWTOR does this, we will likely run into budget issues. SWTOR "solved" theirs by taking from content development. I don't know if that'd be viable here.)

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Originally Posted by Stabby-Chan

My housing solution:

1) Return all money and items to all players and reset all plots.
Why?
Fairness.

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Fairness????? whats fair about any of this in my cause ive had my 3 rp houses for a year i paid $18 to transfer for housing again i paid real money to go to a server with a ton of empty plots...everyone who was on the server who wanted a house had a house or a chance to get a house, Before Se opened the free transfer program due to them over stocking Balmug and having to lock it.As ive istated i and 2 other fc mates counted my server the night before and there was 218 empty plots.

So now in fairness you wanna take away what i paid extra money to $18 cause housing was my #1 prioty to give everyone who got a free transfer a chance at a house...cause lets face it new subscriptions aren't the ones looking for houses in most causes it mid-high pop servers and people who took free transfer to low pop servers who wern't fast enough to get one. those on low pop servers had no issuses and plenty of houses open till free transfers

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

Fairness????? whats fair about any of this in my cause ive had my 3 rp houses for a year

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Why do you need three houses?

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Originally Posted by Calteru

Why do you need three houses?

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I play 3 differnt char and rp them. all 3 have beaten HW, 2 have beaten all of Sb one is working thru Sb now, all 3 played every week most daily. All 3 have differnt lives and styles, my Dark dragon has a dark den home filed with his throne and treasure, my female kitty has a house built soft and cozy...my male kitty has a pimp house with a dance stage and hot tub.

Which is why i paid to get off a med pop sever a year ago to go to a place i knew i could have housing for all 3..i knew it was within my rights to buy more then one and i knew this server had 100's of empty plots

I really think some of you are making it sound more expensive then it actually is in regards to server upgrades. No i do not have a figure but SE CAN afford to upgrade the servers, they just use sub money on their other game projects instead..
Other games i am sure have less revenue and less servers (Elder Scrolls Online as example) and have nowhere near the issues with housing that we have.

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Originally Posted by Maero

I really think some of you are making it sound more expensive then it actually is in regards to server upgrades. No i do not have a figure but SE CAN afford to upgrade the servers, they just use sub money on their other game projects instead..
Other games i am sure have less revenue and less servers (Elder Scrolls Online as example) and have nowhere near the issues with housing that we have.

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They could cut some of there promotion budget to. painting aa side of a bulding for Sb release was silly for it last what 2 days.traveling every in the world is nice but put some money back into the game.. we were promised maijor upgrades with ps3 limitations gone, yet we cant have 45 + clickable items in our houses with out items not rendering till your almost 5 feet from them

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Originally Posted by Stabby-Chan

My housing solution:

1) Return all money and items to all players and reset all plots.

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That hardly sounds fair as my FC already have a house (in Mist Ward 1) ever since housing was implemented. And now we need to lose it and leave it to sheer luck to get it back?

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Originally Posted by Iveriad

That hardly sounds fair as my FC already have a house (in Mist Ward 1) ever since housing was implemented. And now we need to lose it and leave it to sheer luck to get it back?

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This is my whole point about taking away from multi house owners isn't fair either. I've had 3 houses for a year on a server that didn't have housing problems till SE did free transfer.

All this stems from SE's greed and no one really sees it or says any thing. If you stop char creatition on a server you don't allow people to still pay to transfer there. they allowed people to transfer into Balmug to the point they had to lock it all togther and come up with a way to get them off there now. So free transfer came into effect. causing house problems on servers that never had them before.. Yes high n med pop servers had problems, but most lower pop servers like my server did not have a housing issue other then not enough larges..heck the night before free transfers there was still med plots for 8.5mil

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

If you stop char creatition on a server you don't allow people to still pay to transfer there. They allowed people to transfer into Balmug to the point they had to lock it altogether and come up with a way to get them off there now. So free transfer came into effect.

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I do agree about the whole SE's greed thing but, just for the record, the incentives to transfer people off of Balmung didn't get most of the players to leave. It was a mix of friends who started playing during Stormblood and the 3+hour login queues for the first two weeks of Stormblood which did the real damage. Once SE implemented the daily forced logoff of EVERYONE IN THE GAME the massive wave of transfers came to a halt.

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Originally Posted by Septonyte

I do agree about the whole SE's greed thing but, just for the record, the incentives to transfer people off of Balmung didn't get most of the players to leave. It was a mix of friends who started playing during Stormblood and the 3+hour login queues for the first two weeks of Stormblood which did the real damage. Once SE implemented the daily forced logoff of EVERYONE IN THE GAME the massive wave of transfers came to a halt.

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I have to disagree here... Because being Free was one of if not the biggest incentive to transfer or more would of left prior

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

I have to disagree here... Because being Free was one of if not the biggest incentive to transfer or more would of left prior

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Key word there was for BALMUNG. None of the other servers offer anything close to the player ran events on Balmung. It's 100% of the reason why I would never leave Balmung. And this is coming after having been on several small-med pop servers.

Doing a housing reset would not be fair or viable at all.
Forcing a 1 house 1 FC per server per account would be unfair to some, but it would alleviate a lot of problems. That said, to be slightly fair, all alts on that server should have access to the house that the player owns.
An overall new system for relinquishing and purchasing the houses needs to be put in as well to discourage or outright eliminate property flipping.
A better system for when new wards are released.

I think these are they key things a lot of people can agree on.

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Originally Posted by NaoTenbe

Forcing a 1 house 1 FC per server per account would be unfair to some, but it would alleviate a lot of problems.

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Ideally we should all have as many houses as we like but as long as there is limited supply then the amount of houses a player can have should be limited to match.

One personal house and one fc house per server is enough. This won't punish fc masters for simply leading a fc, and if alts on the same server have access to the personal house then this will soften the blow to those who have several houses. To further soften the blow those players should be able to choose which houses to keep and get refunded the full price of the plot and building permit of those they discard.

On top of this tenancy slots in private houses should remain to allow sharing with other players, and larger houses should have more tenancy slots to reflect the size of the building.

These are definitely not cure all fixes but they would go a long way to improve what is currently available to us.

I feel for FC's you should have more than 10 members to own a house. I been seeing FC's made that only have one person with the sole purpose of getting a house to flip. There are so many solutions hopefully there is one that can benefit everyone. I have 1 house I would like to keep it that way lol! No resets please, I took a lot of time and effort in decorating my house XD.

One solution would be this:

(Instance house/or maybe even plot housing)
Have an NPC that sells ghost plots. Meaning paying for a plot that doesn't exist in the game. So long you have the money you can just pay it.
Pros: Zero randomnesses, Zero obstructions and 100% availability so long you have the GIL.

[If instance]
Then once it is paid, you will immediately receive the plot

[If normal plot]
Then once it is paid, you wait for the next "Ghost housing implementation patch day" where Square Enix will launch those houses for people used the NPC to buy the house. That way there will be no oversupply and won't stress the server. You will get it eventually maybe wait for a month or two instead of never getting it. This will also give you (developers) time to put in plots/wards that will balance out demand/supply. Everyone will get a house, so long they can pay for it. That should be the only ceiling of getting the house.

Also, 1 house for personal and 1 for FC. This is key.

Change apartment to Condominium

The condominium will be a duplex type condo meaning there will be two floors and will be the size of a small house. A balcony can be purchased as an upgrade for gardening.

Put fun into getting a condo, you can add Condominium utility which everyone in that condo unit can share these utilities, these utilities would be:

1) A gym - training dummies for everyone to use
2) A SWIMMING POOL (So people can swim and stuff)
3) Workshop (Where people can use crafting station for a small fee)
4) BBQ pit! People can buy food there and be a gather spot for people to chill and meet with her condominium owners!
5) ChocoPark (Carpark) where you can park your chocobo there and do Chocobo stuff
6) Condo transport to people to Exploratory Voyages.

These will help because you will then eliminate the need for people to get their own house because they can do everything in it!~
PLUS IT IS AN INSTANCE thus helping with the server stress if any.

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Originally Posted by Niraves

Why should we, as multiple plot owners, be punished for SEs failure of a housing system? We didn't violate any rules to get our plots, we shouldn't have them taken away from us so that people who will likely never even use them can buy them up and then forget they exist until its time to reset the demo timer. I made a post about this in the other thread, but I'm seriously annoyed by people saying that people who own multiple houses are whats wrong with the housing in this game.

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It's not about punishment. If the rules about housing changes, it needs to change for everyone. Back when they decided that not subscribing for 45 days would lose you your house, people were upset, and I can understand that. It was a change from the original allowances for house owing. But it wasn't a punishment, it was an attempt to deal with the lack of housing when they didn't want to add more wards because of server strain or whatever. This wouldn't be a punishment either. And how can you know the people who would buy up the houses wouldn't use them? How can you know it won't be one of the people that have waited for years to get one?

I'm not saying people owning multiple houses is what's wrong with housing. There are many, many things wrong with housing as it works now. But one person owning four houses means three other goes without and miss out on a part of the game, and that's not ideal. Still not as a big a problem as house flippers, but if they can't deal with the house flippers without legit multiple house owners being affected, well. I think dealing with the flippers should take priority even they can't do it without affecting multiple owners.

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Originally Posted by Combination-NC

Back when they decided that not subscribing for 45 days would lose you your house,

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This change was never made the change was not using your house for 45 days.. big differnce taking away a house someone hasn't used in 45 days then taking away a house being used...

"Private housing that has not been accessed by the owner within forty-five days."
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...3e7ccabefa9954

No money to stabilize and make more wards from 2.3 was a questionable matter to this day. YoshiP has more excuses I bet.

One thing that could solve a lot of problems, Is if SE was able to institute a way to switch a personal home over to an FC. That way, more players in you're FC could access the amenity's in you're home, Myself, I own a medium personal. And have for a couple of years now. If it could be transfered to an FC, That would solve a lot of problems. It would allow access to the home for all the FC members, Plus the added stable space. I tried to get a house when Shirogane opened, but was 1 of those that had login issues. When I was able to get in, (and I started trying at 5 minutes till 3am pst) finally got in at 3:05am, at the ferry NPC , and all was gone except for a very few smalls and mediums. If as I said before, a personal could be transfered to FC Without a change in ownership, I (and I'm sure there are others) Would be Happy with what I allready have. Oh, and btw, I am the leader of my FC.

Locking down the housing from this point on to one per account per server. While doing this you can grant the allowance of rooms to be added like in an FC house for your multiple characters or to those who have been granted permissions to access your house leaving it at the limited number of I believe it's 3. I wouldn't punish those who already have several houses on their account. As long as they are in use then they shouldn't be punished for it.

Apartments need to have permissions for other players you trust to be able to use items (ex use food items). It would be nice to have the option to have built ins for the walls like in the inn rooms to help with space. Allow us to have shelves that are built into the walls be an option for us to put books or trinkets on. It would help free up the floor space for other things. If we can add windows to the current walls why not let us add something like this?

Silly character limits...

An open garden area in the housing that all can access. You can tag whoever planted what to avoid stealing or let us 'rent' a plot for planting for so many days so we can grow items we need. It would be nice to make it like a community garden sort of like what we've seen in Idyllshire. I'm not sure how many would go for that but I think it would be nice to see if it's possible.

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

This change was never made the change was not using your house for 45 days.. big differnce taking away a house someone hasn't used in 45 days then taking away a house being used...

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Just so you know you're technically wrong. If you haven't subbed for 45 days since your sub ran out then you don't have the means to enter your house for 45 days. The demolition timer is so short that you have to keep your sub active close to constantly.

I agree that people who use their houses often should have more rights to own a house than those who don't, but that's not how ownership works. If a player buys their house and decides to do nothing well that's just them doing what they want with it. There are no rules regarding empty houses. The demolition timer is just something that takes housing away from players who entirely neglect the most basic use of their house and/or cannot login or renew their subscription.

Completely separate gardening from housing allow players to purchase a instanced "garden plot" that has x (1-6?) 8 slot garden squares based on how much they paid for (not rented). no one has to worry about crop stealing or owning (wasting a property) land to have a garden. Gardeners can have full access to their gardens and they just might release their stranglehold on some of those housing plots they use only for gardening if they can no longer garden at said homes.

You get one house per account. Allow alts to share housing and resources. I really don't understand why there is such a draconian restriction on friending and sharing between your own characters.