Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

The only thing we CAN do now really is...don't even level your WHM.

The mark of a good healer is casting as little basic heal spells (Cures etc) as possible, utilizing our oGCDs for the bulk of healing while we DPS on the side.

Now? Those lv 60+ cool shit? They expect us to spam Cures to even use them! Look SE, make it every Cure/CureII 100% get a flower, that will at least make it less disgusting to play.

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Originally Posted by OmegaFlare

How do you fall asleep with Thin Air + 5 Holy, the best burst aoe damage in the game? Every single speed run group is going to favor WHM over the other two.

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In terms of personal dps yes. 260 stone 4 to 230 broil sch to 210 malefic 3 for Astro and the air in dungeons. But in raids, will that dps overcome the utility that Astro cards bring plus the new mini battle litany that the sch has?

Well only time will tell.

Yeah, no...i'm very disappointed in this change. I main WHM...so i see this and go "..you've taken away EVERYTHING that made them good and given it to ALL the healers!"

I've heard enough CRAP in discord bashing WHMs, this isn't going to fix it, this is going to make it 1000 Times worse. you're not going to see WHMs anymore, and I won't heal anymore, because frankly? what's the point? I bloody hate scholar, I hate AST and now...you've given them ALL the Toys and WHMs get...yeah.

If i continue, it'll be worse and i'm trying to actually keep as civil as I can.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

The only thing we CAN do now really is...don't even level your WHM.

The mark of a good healer is casting as little basic heal spells (Cures etc) as possible, utilizing our oGCDs for the bulk of healing while we DPS on the side.

Now? Those lv 60+ cool shit? They expect us to spam Cures to even use them! Look SE, make it every Cure/CureII 100% get a flower, that will at least make it less disgusting to play.

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Even then it would be stupid. Let them proc through regen, or fucking medica AT LEAST. Come on SE, this WHM job system is so obviously tacked on at the last minute it's embarrassing. And we're going to suffer hard because of this.

Why do this? Why strip us of everything, give it to everyone healer, and give us shit all? I'm sorry but I'm pissed. WHM was the only healer I enjoyed playing, and you do this to them? It's like a bad joke.

20% chance on two spells you spam while healing.

A possible 48s cooldown instant cast 15% of max HP absorb (stat inflation in SB? Warrior in Defiance at 70 in raid gear?), 600 potency instant cast AOE heal that costs a secondary resource from lilies, Zero MP cost for 12s, instant across the board haste (reduces CDs too), AND you still have a PBAOE stun that literally no one else has. Don't forget the nuke with no requisite and the potency of Fire IV.

Why the salt? Because a scholar can give someone else their fairy, have a lazy "oh &*#!" heal, and up critical rate on a target (Which effects you, if you're there. Free, hasted, 5% boosted Stone 4 spam? Don't forget you're still not DPS but that won't be laughable). Or because they gave a card nuke and a triggered damage/heal to AST?

White Mages are amazing now. Bole and Chain Strategem are not going to remove WHM usefulness. If that were the case, everyone would just want two scholars to get CS up twice. Bole isn't a 100% draw, even if you can hold it. All they did was make SCH even more lazy. They made WHM better in general, especially with the removal of stance dancing. I'd pick WHM over the other two in a heartbeat now. It actually sounds a lot more than a "pure healer" now, as everyone likes to throw around. It sounds like a mage.

I agree with the idea of not leveling whm at all. I'm not touching mine there's no point and maybe someone will wake up and realize something is wrong. Guess I'll do sch for when I want to heal.

The problem with the lily system is that you're either in a situation where the CDR is basically worthless because you're not using the spells on cooldown anyway (or not in a situation where it's vitally important to do so, at least) or you're in a situation the CDR *is* relevant so you get into situations of "nobody's taking damage but I need to spam cure to fish for lily procs" (making stone/aero also proc lilies would be a good solve for that one) or "I want to tetra/assize but I need to hold these three lilies for benison so I can cover the next tank buster and have a short enough CD to be able to cover the one after that."

And yeah, the RNG is kind of annoying- increasing the proc chance (ideally to 100%, but even 50% would be nice) while proportionally adjusting the number of lilies/effect per lily would be great regardless of everything else.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Perhaps this will be the wake up call the devs need because White Mage usage will drop severely now.

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Worked for AST. They could heal through content at 3.0, as WHM will be able to do at 4.0 but people complained, look at them now.

If they want to go with the idea of cooldown reduction of powerful spells being the core WHM gimmick, they should take notes from the WoW holy priest design where spammable spells reduce the cooldown of powerful spells with similar functions (single-target heals reduce the CD of a spell that's basically Tetra, AE heals reduce the CD of a powerful instant AE heal, damage spells reduce the CD of a big damage spell) and in that case a resource bar like lilies doesn't really make sense.

If they want to have a secondary resource bar, they should make it basically be like the WoW Paladin's holy power, where your standard spells (cure 1/2/3, stone/aero, maybe medica) build resources that are consumed to use more powerful spells. This design wouldn't even require adding more buttons just to have things to consume this, just take existing mid-length CD spells (Tetra, Assize, possibly Benison, maybe add a new single-target damage spell) and have them cost lilies but have no CD.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

I agree with the idea of not leveling whm at all. I'm not touching mine there's no point and maybe someone will wake up and realize something is wrong. Guess I'll do sch for when I want to heal.

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I don't like any other healers, so I guess my days of healing are over.
Guess I'll pick up a DPS now....

I'm really just... disappointed. It's a damn shame what they've done to them honestly. It actually seems like we'll be doing even worse than in 3.0 as far as raid relevance goes...

Hell, if you want a super low-effort solution just make Assize have no cooldown but cost a full bar of lilies, tuning lily generation rate/max number of lilies accordingly. It's pretty much built to be a button that's useful to push no matter what situation you're in, so having it be the thing that lilies build up to would work pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

...nonsense...

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Talk about a troll....

Anyways. the probability is of 20% chance of getting a confession is like 1 of 5 cures. And the more cures over 5 you output the more chances of at least getting 1 and potentially more. so lets just be funny and say RNG shits on us every pull each pull always and we only get 1 confession every 10 cures (half of the listed probability). That would mean an effect recast time of 10 gcds (20sec- 25 sec recast). that's still a 400 minimum potency with a 20-25 sec recast, ogcd, centered off the target for 30 yalms.... it will reach everybody..... (even if the tank is 6 yalms directly in front of the party that's still 24 yalms effective aoe around the party.. basically the same as medica ii 25 yalm radius).

So yea that is a very reliable skill IFF PI is the only utility that consumes confessions. ( And the confession stack last 30 sec so u can most definitely prep it pre pull the way we stack buff now b4 a pull.)

Mind you this is all on top of the cures we still have and asylum and medica and assize and tetragram and Benny.....so hardly (just on the basis of ability in a vaccum) is SE telling us to go play AST/SCH


EDIT
FOR YOU NERD OUT THERE!!! the probability of landing AT LEAST 1 confession out of 5 attempts given a 20% success rate is 67% chance; getting at least 1 out of 10 attempts jumps your chances up to 89%; and finally getting at least 1 out of 12 attempts is 93% chance!! 67% is a bit meh... but anything upward of 80% is dependable. And the gcd cost for 80%+ reliability is 20-30 sec [effective recast of the ability].

Yes anything less than 100% is not SCRIPT rotation reliable and min/max'ers will complain about SE adding more RNG to the game (but RNG is good in the form of dynamic play. Rather than a static test of how well you can memorize a sequence then execute).

This...this is the reason WHY this is bad:

i was talking about the changes and this is what someone said when i said we get the skills taken away from us:

[12:37 PM] M S: what the heck is a x role
[12:38 PM] M S: you mean cross class?
[12:39 PM] M S: if so, isn't that better? WHM still has them, and now the other healers can use them too
[12:42 PM] Dante: no
[12:42 PM] Dante: we get them taken away
[12:42 PM] Dante: we have to cross class/x-role them
[12:42 PM] Dante: to have them.
[12:43 PM] M S: so we can still use them
[12:43 PM] M S: what's the big deal?

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

You...you're trolling right? You can't be serious.

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No, perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension a little?

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

AST has higher potency heals

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Wrong - AST is 10 potency up on it's cure, 10 potency down (and a full tick short) on it's regen as far as bread and butter healing goes. The MP disparity is nothing new, the Assize buffs and Thin Air will heal to compensate for that. As far as the media build went, SCH is the one that needs to be crying foul here, not WHM

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

ludacrous shields on gcd

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Agreed - Isn't this more of a problem for SCH though?

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

less randomness in their cards

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Soso - This could go either way, sleeve draw looks nice, but the addition of a ability to remove cards has me worried that you won't be able to click them off anymore which has the potential to offset the extra cards that sleeve draw will bring into play. Too many factors to say until we've seen Omega and played with this first hand.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

And for what so a whm's emergency aoe heal is affected by random procs on the target

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Assize called, it wants you to know that it still loves you <3 - Plenary Indulgence clearly isn't intended to be an emergency aoe heal at all, the 30 second duration on confession stacks pretty much seals that right out of the gate. However, try really hard for me and ignore the aoe aspect of it for a moment.... Are you there yet? Good, now think about how powerful a free 400+ potency insta cast on a 15 second cooldown in any situation where a tank is taking enough sustained damage. Now double it if you've got 2 tanks taking hits. It isn't an aoe panic button by any stretch, it is however an interesting mishmash of a tank specific lustrate and synastry. In trivial content and dungeons it'll be nigh useless, for progression raiding where you're actually having to spam cure the tank(s) I suspect it's going to scale up impressively.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

Whm is SCREWED in 4.0.

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Nope - The only thing that I see as screwed with these healer changes is SCHs AoE DPS gameplay, 2 dots, and then 2 oGCDs (one with a 1 minute CD) whilst single target nuking? Really SE? AST is a utility powerhouse pre 50, yet it's dull and feels weak because if it's inability to aoe properly pre gravity. Seems kind of silly to condemn SCHs to a similar feel in dungeons at the end game =(

SE, whoever designed/tested this and said, "Yeah, this will work." Should lose their jobs. Please make sure WHM gets the same love as the other jobs.

#SAVETHEWHM

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Originally Posted by OmegaFlare

How do you fall asleep with Thin Air + 5 Holy, the best burst aoe damage in the game? Every single speed run group is going to favor WHM over the other two.

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Cleric stance maybe. You just do dps and heal at the same time. There is no risk no pressure no fun in healing anymore.

This whole lily gauge feels completely random and not really cohesive to the job.

Kind of like,they had a nice idea going for every other job where a gauge would be useful.
Except WHM. so they just added something to it. Something thats rather useless.


I'll still lvl WHM because they'll still be best to dish out dps in dungeons. So it may just be my "roulette main".
You know...to carry the lazy dps.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

This...this is the reason WHY this is bad:

i was talking about the changes and this is what someone said when i said we get the skills taken away from us:

[12:37 PM] M S: what the heck is a x role
[12:38 PM] M S: you mean cross class?
[12:39 PM] M S: if so, isn't that better? WHM still has them, and now the other healers can use them too
[12:42 PM] Dante: no
[12:42 PM] Dante: we get them taken away
[12:42 PM] Dante: we have to cross class/x-role them
[12:42 PM] Dante: to have them.
[12:43 PM] M S: so we can still use them
[12:43 PM] M S: what's the big deal?

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Even Worse because WHM not only lost Divine Seal. It got nerfed and increased Cooldown. AST lost the healing part of Synastry, but with the new Divine Seal it's still the same and SCH got it for free.

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Originally Posted by Xylas

..

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First off, you only build these resources off of Cure and Cure II. Your very BASIC heals. The secondary stat being even worse because only the person you heal gets a confession stack, meaning people without confessions stacks simply aren't healed.

How is this any good at all? It's locked behind way too much RNG that requires you to slam the most basic heals. Meanwhile both SCH and AST gets massive utility updates. Do you have any idea what this is going to do to their raid relevance? Hell they're not even fun to play in dungeons at this rate.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

Even Worse because WHM not only lost Divine Seal. It got nerfed and increased Cooldown. AST lost the healing part of Synastry, but with the new Divine Seal it's still the same and SCH got it for free.

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exactly. we're losing EVERYTHING and the other classes are getting it for free.

even the "Rescue" which they debuted on WHM is going to be X-role...

HEY! @SE you guys seeing what you did wrong yet?

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Worked for AST. They could heal through content at 3.0, as WHM will be able to do at 4.0 but people complained, look at them now.

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The thing about it tho is they likely wont change it simply because the people whom raid is such a small percentage of the population and whm will be used by plenty of non raiders so its gona take some push to get them to fix it.

Wait and see how it plays, especially in raiding. So much doom and gloom and all I see is shiny things everywhere.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Wait and see how it plays, especially in raiding. So much doom and gloom and all I see is shiny things everywhere.

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Why would you play it. It still barely heals the same as the other 2 healer, but without the DPS cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

This...this is the reason WHY this is bad:

i was talking about the changes and this is what someone said when i said we get the skills taken away from us:

[12:37 PM] M S: what the heck is a x role
[12:38 PM] M S: you mean cross class?
[12:39 PM] M S: if so, isn't that better? WHM still has them, and now the other healers can use them too
[12:42 PM] Dante: no
[12:42 PM] Dante: we get them taken away
[12:42 PM] Dante: we have to cross class/x-role them
[12:42 PM] Dante: to have them.
[12:43 PM] M S: so we can still use them
[12:43 PM] M S: what's the big deal?

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Said it before. This is the exact issue. We need to cross skill pretty much everything back, we won't even be able to play with the new role skills if we want our original stuff back -.-

I would also like to point out that WHM's ability to handle older content has been harmed considerably with the removal of Stoneskin, such as with mechanics that required shielding (eg T10 prey).

You can say old content doesn't matter if you want, but it is still harming the class.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

The thing about it tho is they likely wont change it simply because the people whom raid is such a small percentage of the population and whm will be used by plenty of non raiders so its gona take some push to get them to fix it.

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Which makes me wonder in that case then, why did AST get buffs at all? Raid ability doesn't matter for WHM but it's important for AST to be viable?

Maybe it's because WHM is from 1.0 while SCH and AST is Yoshi-P's babies so he has no idea what to do with WHM. All joking aside, if they didn't listen to our feedback throughout 3.0 then I doubt 4.0 is going to be different. AST and SCH players can let go of the chair arms (they might break soon), your not getting nerfed.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

Even Worse because WHM not only lost Divine Seal. It got nerfed and increased Cooldown. AST lost the healing part of Synastry, but with the new Divine Seal it's still the same and SCH got it for free.

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Seriously. Take our spell, nerf it, give it back to us.
What the hell was the point in this? It just seems trollish.

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Originally Posted by Snat

Said it before. This is the exact issue. We need to cross skill pretty much everything back, we won't even be able to play with the new role skills if we want our original stuff back -.-

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we're not even going to be able to have Swift cast if we want ALL our old skills.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Wait and see how it plays, especially in raiding. So much doom and gloom and all I see is shiny things everywhere.

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I'm getting damn sick of this as a reply. Seriously, when they said "pure healer" we said it wouldn't work and nothing we saw in the video would give whm a raid spot. And all we hear is people ignoring everything and believing there's some radical change to whm despite what devs said and we had to wait till we had the tool tips. Now these people have just moved on to wait for raids, no whm sucks. The class has been gutted and I don't need to see the "NO whm" party finders to know what I can figure out from the tooltips.

Is whm the new monk for this expansion?

I was under the impression, that one of the main reasons we only got two new jobs, none of which were tanks or healers, was that more resources could be directed towards the balancing of our current roles.

I feel rather than rectify, the issues have just been exacerbated. SE why

Is there an Even Earlier Access that allowed you to play the jobs at 70 already?

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Worked for AST. They could heal through content at 3.0, as WHM will be able to do at 4.0 but people complained, look at them now.

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At the risk of pulling the elitist card, you healed early Gordias Savage progression in the first few weeks as AST then right? The lack of a Gobwalker has me dubious here =(

AST got buffed because SE were incredibly cautious with it at release and it was undertuned in a multitude of ways, it had agro creep issues in aoe heavy fights, it needed to hoard CDs and cards just to keep up with MP, it's HPS burst was limited and highly problematic in early savage, even Ewer and Spire were watered down to nigh irrelevance at the jobs release. The buffs were required to get the job widely used, it's just they took it a little too far in some aspects (Specifically Balance, and arguably it's MP regen).

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Originally Posted by Beckett

Is there an Even Earlier Access that allowed you to play the jobs at 70 already?

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Don't need to play when you know all the skills. Moving around and pressing them doesn't change how they work.

SAM is the new MNK actually. Zero raid utility!

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Originally Posted by javid

Wrong things.

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Do you know how it works the ability?

The ability works that when you use it. It heals for the amounts of Confession stacks a person has. If the tank is the only one that has Confession stacks, it will be the only one that gets healed. It's not an AoE heal. The AoE is for triggering the ability. 30 yards means that if the tank that has Confession stacks is 31 yards far from you, it won't get healed.

That's how bad it is the ability. It's not an AoE heal. It's only a heal that you will use on the tank because the rest of the party will get healed with Medica and Medica II.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

First off, you only build these resources off of Cure and Cure II. Your very BASIC heals. The secondary stat being even worse because only the person you heal gets a confession stack, meaning people without confessions stacks simply aren't healed.

How is this any good at all? It's locked behind way too much RNG that requires you to slam the most basic heals. Meanwhile both SCH and AST gets massive utility updates. Do you have any idea what this is going to do to their raid relevance? Hell they're not even fun to play in dungeons at this rate.

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Alright. I don't main healer, so I'll concede to an extent. But I would personally prefer the new self buffs to the new utilities that the others get. It's just an opinion, but people going as far as to say delete WHM or it's useless? Come the %#*^ on. No one is going to turn down a healer.

Remember when HW launched and everyone said WAR was useless because they just got a bunch of DPS skills, but they're amazing?
Remember when AST and SCH were both "underpowered" so they buffed them?
I'm sure WHM will surprise a lot of people. If not, then they'll be readjusted when enough people don't stop complaining.

http://i.imgur.com/XdugDqr.gif

Did anyone really think that this was going to go any other way? Besides hopeful thinking? This is just detestable. SE has lost their way... completely.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

we're not even going to be able to have Swift cast if we want ALL our old skills.

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Yep. Why I still think come 4.1 we will have 10 slots for role skills xD

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Originally Posted by Xylas

Alright. I don't main healer, so I'll concede to an extent. But I would personally prefer the new self buffs to the new utilities that the others get. It's just an opinion, but people going as far as to say delete WHM or it's useless? Come the %#*^ on. No one is going to turn down a healer.

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Considering you're over on the tank forum whining about drk, and we know in HW plds and whms were refused parties for high end content, do you think that maybe, just maybe people will be turning down whm? No I'm sure everyone is going to prefer pure overheal potency to party wide damage buffs and high utility while maintaining almost the exact same heal potency.

Savage clear in north america = something like less than 2% or was it 10%?


Why does raid savage utility matter?