Your thoughts on Astrolgian so far?

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Originally Posted by Kyln

No, you cannot change Sects on the fly, however, you may change your healing style while the other healers cannot. .

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As a member of raiding group that has been together for years, and i know my co healer wont change from whm, how is it better then that i use ast compared to sch?

Have their been any comments from the developers about the AST imbalance yet - or are they waiting for more people to get to end game?

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Originally Posted by Kyln

Yes, the class is considered a hybrid. Which is why you can change between regen or shields. Again, pointing this out that: neither of these Sects are as good as the other healing counterparts and thus should not be associated comparatively.

No, you cannot change Sects on the fly, however, you may change your healing style while the other healers cannot. You can also go into Noct Sect, put up shields on your party, then switch to Dirunal for the pull to save stoneskins. It's all about how you push this class to the next level.

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i can also just level SCH and WHM and have both healing styles and full power instead of 75% power because of hybrid tax, every time AST can change, i can also change classes.

This really isnt a good point you make.

i like it alot so far but i feel like i have to do alot more work with it than when i play whm. i dont think i have a complete grasp and understanding of how to use it to its maximum potential yet though so just gotta keep chuggin!

I thought the grind to 60 was going to be absolute torture because of our low DPS but Gravity and Malefic II are a godsend.

That being said; I don't know if its because I come from SCH and I rarely had to worry about MP management but OMG I find myself running out of MP so fast!
There needs to be a better way to get the tank up than just spamming Benefic II, and don't even get me started on when I have to rez somebody T_T good bye mp bar. I think they should lower the CD on Essential Dignity, we would be able to use it more often and would lead to better MP management.

The card system needs to be reworked so that when we 'shuffle' we don't get the same card.

As a SCH I use to feel safe going into an unknown fight because of selene/eos, lustrate and as a WHM because of big heals, but as an AST I feel so unsure because I know that I don't have that back up to cover me if something goes wrong.

Overall the class is really fun to play but it is lacking something.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

I am not following you.

I stated that I don't believe AST to be useless as you say, because without an AST I would not be able to heal Ravana EX alone. This means that AST is not useless, otherwise I would not be able to heal it even with an AST.

This also makes it viable by definition.

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if they do buff ast to the point where they are better than whm in diurnal and better than sch in nocturne then whm and sch would still be viable because you can still do ravana ex with them. so it would be no big deal if ast is better than both of them, right? just like how it's no big deal that whm and sch are currently much better than ast.

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Originally Posted by Lilita

As a member of raiding group that has been together for years, and i know my co healer wont change from whm, how is it better then that i use ast compared to sch?

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I am not justifying using this class by any means, so please don't direct your anger for this class toward me. I am simply stating that the AST is a hybrid that can change between play styles within a lockout (not having to exit to change classes). I never once said you should take it over any other healing class, so please read more carefully. The class is very weak in comparison to the other healing classes and thus should be noted accordingly. However, it is not without purpose, and should not be overlooked as a viable healing/support class, should someone prefer to play it over the other classes.

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Originally Posted by Nague

This really isnt a good point you make.

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My point, which you missed entirely, is that you are comparing a hybrid class to the other healing classes, as I stated previously, this is a grave mistake. This is like comparing a grapefruit and an orange to a mandarin orange. The AST was never meant to be better than either of the two classes. There were only two outcomes from this patch, either the AST was going to be OP, or it was going to fall short. I can safely say I have done all content in this patch thus far as an AST, and there are definitely points where it falls short, and definitely points where it shines. It's all about how you utilize the class. It has always been about the player behind the class.

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Originally Posted by Kyln

There were only two outcomes from this patch, either the AST was going to be OP, or it was going to fall short.

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Are you honestly under the impression that balance for this Job is not possible? #opinionuseless #byefelicia

Lol hybrid tax? Astro is a pure healer when you combine our sect bonus we are within a few potency on par with the other healers.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Lol hybrid tax? Astro is a pure healer when you combine our sect bonus we are within a few potency on par with the other healers.

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I almost don't want to comment, because you are talking about combining sects, which is impossible. Again, I did all the content in this patch so far, and can say without a doubt that you are mistaken.

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Originally Posted by Ambivalence

Are you honestly under the impression that balance for this Job is not possible? #opinionuseless #byefelicia

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Not at all. You're misinterpreting my words. Please read my other posts.

One of the problems I'm running into with AST is that the healing is so weak I'm often forced to use cards on myself to keep up during longer and tougher fights (Ewer, Arrow, Spear, etc). My lvl 60 guildmate has said the same--it seems like this defeats the point of a support healer.

Others have floated the idea of some benefit when you draw or use a card. Why not give the AST a small portion of every card used so that we can focus more on being a support class instead of being forced to be greedy with our buffs.

tbh, they should give us some mana back whenever we use cards. Problem solved (but they still have to rework/buff lightspeed, collective unconscious and the level 60 spell)

The following would address all my issues with the class

Lightspeed: removing the potency decrease and add mp reduction
Collective Unconsciousness: either increase the outputs significantly or remove the channeled cast
Celestial Opposition: decrease the CD to 30sec

I've had no issues with the card system thus far. Sect swapping would be a welcome addition though given our weaker regen and shields.

Sect swapping will still be useless with a SCH, forcing us to exclusively play with a WHM.

Nocturnal sect needs a rework tbh or make it stack with SCH's shield.

Celestial Opposition has far too much potential for a 30 second CD. I'd say 90 sec to be honest.

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

Celestial Opposition has far too much potential for a 30 second CD. I'd say 90 sec to be honest.

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How ? Explain how it has too much potential.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

How ? Explain how it has too much potential.

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You'd just use it everytime you put a card buff on someone, why not just increase cardbuff time to 20s?

... it only increases the card by 5 sec. Such a big deal. Whoosh.

Or make it a 40-45 sec cd.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

... it only increases the card by 5 sec. Such a big deal. Whoosh.

Or make it a 40-45 sec cd.

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And aren't you forced into Expanding buffs to the whole party for it to be worth using?

yeah. well sometimes i cba and just time dilatation + celestial opposition one guy so he gets a 45 or 50sec damage buff.

happens once in a lifetime since I must get 1 balance for every 40 cards I draw /sigh

I seriously think some cards have a higher chance of getting picked

Because Expanded Balance/Arrow on an 8 man party is already incredibly powerful. Extending by another 5 seconds, because the CD is pretty much always up when I need it, pretty much makes it broken. Keep in mind that it extends the duration of all of my other buffs. A. Helios is now stronger and A. Benefic is now stronger when in Diurnal Sect. It also extends Luminous Aether. I'm not sure but does it not also extend Synastry on both me and the tank therefore making it last longer? Synastry is a pretty powerful cooldown as is.

Since the 30 sec CD syncs with the Draw CD and every other CD we have, I'd honestly pop it on cooldown. It also has a 4s stun on it (its meh but still something).

Yeah that's all perfect in a perfect world BUT : you need to actually get an arrow or a spear to Royal Road it. Then you need to actually get a Balance/Arrow to use it. You won't be able to do that every 30 sec.

It's just not how any of this work.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

... it only increases the card by 5 sec. Such a big deal. Whoosh.

Or make it a 40-45 sec cd.

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Yes, that's the point. It's not going to feel good even if you give it a lower CD because the effect is so small. So buff the effect rather than just making it into a way of making card buffs 20s always.

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Originally Posted by Poisonous

And aren't you forced into Expanding buffs to the whole party for it to be worth using?

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No, it's oGCD and instant so you lose nothing by using it. It would always be worth it because by the time another card buff rolls around...hey it's back up again.

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Originally Posted by SaintK

This "speed buff" your talking about is also useless. Hell it even throws off my precasting its so useless sometimes. Cool, you get an instant cast benefic 2, but its still on GCD so.....whats the point?

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Because you can get the tank up faster. Cast a Benefic and then instant cast Benefic II after that for a bigger burst. It's faster than trying to cast it manually. You do it to get him out of the danger zone.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Lol hybrid tax? Astro is a pure healer when you combine our sect bonus we are within a few potency on par with the other healers.

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yeah for the baseheal maybe, but then you look and see that the other healers actually have powerfull abilities for healing and we have clown abilities that either do nothing (card duratuion increased by 5 sec ), or actually harm your healing like lightspeeed.

Astrologian: the healer that pushes twice as many buttons as a scholar or white mage for half the result! :D

The amount of Ex-Scholar Master Race now Inferior-AST QQ in this thread is astounding.
(I say this because for every post about WHMs having Divine Seal bla bla that AST don't have, there's probably 15~20 post about how Essential Dignity sucks more than Lustrate, how Selene's buff > Card buffs, how Crit adlo> Noct Sect etc etc).

Rather than bemoaning how terrible your class is, but you'll still play it because you love tarot cards and the playstyle, and then moan somemore how your class sucks in an endless despairing cycle, is it really impossible to have a proper discussion on how to play ASTs effectively? (I'll love to participate in such a discussion, but alas, I'm still just a LV 45 AST)

Personally I am loving it. I will say Collective Unconscious is not exactly the best in Nocturnal, feels like it needs a stronger reduction, but despite that I have had zero issue healing or feeling over whelmed and wondering if i can heal my team properly. I can't speak for Scholars as I never unlocked it despite having my Summoner at ilv120, but I am finding it much busier than White Mage (lv 50) and more enjoyable. My only question and maybe someone can help me out. Which combination would you consider the best for getting Luminiferous Aether off cool down. Enhanced Arrow or Extended Arrow? You can get a 96sec for 30 sec, or 84sec for 15. I assume its like pushing the needle till time is up and it resorts back to its original speed but I've done both (not out of combat, guess I need to try) but I don't see much difference.

Arrow is attack speed +10%. It does not affect ability cooldowns. It affects spell/weaponskill casting times and cooldown speed and auto attack speed. The Spear card affects Ability cooldowns (Dignity, Light Speed, L. Aether, etc.) and the Spear card's -20% cooldown effect only takes effect if you use the ability under the Spear buff. If you activate L. Aether before applying the Spear Card onto yourself, your cooldown will not be lowered.

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

Arrow is attack speed +10%. It does not affect ability cooldowns. It affects spell/weaponskill casting times and cooldown speed and auto attack speed. The Spear card affects Ability cooldowns (Dignity, Light Speed, L. Aether, etc.) and the Spear card's -20% cooldown effect only takes effect if you use the ability under the Spear buff. If you activate L. Aether before applying the Spear Card onto yourself, your cooldown will not be lowered.

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...Which should definitely be changed to lower the cooldown of abilities already on cooldown as well.

Otherwise, you'll likely never use it on anyone except yourself and even then it'll be situational (or it always gets RRed...).

Something that needs to be taken into account is that future raid content will have to be balanced with all 3 healer combinations in mind... Which does not work in AST's favor by any stretch of the imagination.

If Alex/savage is tuned around AST's throughput, it's just going to be much easier to clear with WHM/SCH anyway (which in turn creates opportunities for healer DPS), so I don't see people bothering with AST when the other combination will be safer and possibly/probably more overall DPS.

If it's tuned around WHM's throughput + SCH's mitigation tools and their new toys... Welp.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Every healer has its own area of specialization. In the case of AST, it is better than SCH at healbombing and better than WHM at shielding (and possibly DPSing due to its two not-accuracy-bound DoTs). It also brings, albeit potentially, very useful buffs that can make or break an encounter if used at the right time.

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1. Was this a joke? I can design a class that's better than PLD at DPSing, and better than BLM at tanking, will u bring that class to your raid group? lol

2. Useful buff, I'm really not so sure about that, but I'm too tired to argue... Your arguement was just "LOL"

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Originally Posted by RoseM

1. Was this a joke? I can design a class that's better than PLD at DPSing, and better than BLM at tanking, will u bring that class to your raid group? lol

2. Useful buff, I'm really not so sure about that, but I'm too tired to argue... Your arguement was just "LOL"

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Id' say "better" than SCH at healbombing is a stretch, as well. With Emergency Tactics and Indomitability, SCH's capacity for AoE'ing has been boosted greatly. Granted, it's not spammable, but it's not often that spamming AoE's is needed.

Yeah, I dunno why I typed arrow, but I was referring to spear. However that is good to know that it needs to be before the ability is used, I was under the assumption it just speed up until the card was over. Thanks. So in this case then, using the Enhanced Spear would be better if i plan to use it right after then.

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Originally Posted by RoseM

2. Useful buff, I'm really not so sure about that, but I'm too tired to argue... Your arguement was just "LOL"

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Oh, they're definitely useful (some of them, anyway, as there's a good chance Spear will be 100% worthless when you draw it, except to RR it). That's not in question.

But useful enough to justify the weaker healing potential of the AST? Certainly not.

We either need all of the card abilities (draw, shuffle, etc.) to have lower cooldowns, or the buffs themselves need to be far more potent than they are to offset the RNG involved. Even if you DID draw a Balance card every single time, it's really not worth bringing an AST over a more reliable, consistent healer.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

Because you can get the tank up faster. Cast a Benefic and then instant cast Benefic II after that for a bigger burst. It's faster than trying to cast it manually. You do it to get him out of the danger zone.

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It can be convenient if it works out like this, but so far I'm not a fan of this Enhanced Benefic II trait. All it does is have the potential to throw off my heal timing if I forget that I have a proc when I go to use Benefic II.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

It can be convenient if it works out like this, but so far I'm not a fan of this Enhanced Benefic II trait. All it does is have the potential to throw off my heal timing if I forget that I have a proc when I go to use Benefic II.

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Yeah, about the only way I've really been using it so far is to fish for a proc before cleric stancing, throwing out my DoTs/gravity/whatever, then pop out for an essential dignity + benefic II proc to top up the tank from 15% health. Other than that, it's just... awkward. AST on the whole just seems to be a whole lot of ideas they wanted (High mobility, high cast speed healer) that they were afraid to actually commit to. (Lightspeed, inability to swap sects in combat at all, slightly tacked on feeling to each sect with the mediocre 5% haste and 5% potency increase) Seriously, the 5% bonuses for each sect just scream to me "We removed sect swapping for fear of it being overpowered but didn't know how else to fix it in time."

Everyone keeps saying intelligent raid leaders won't even consider ast, when my fc (just server first both primals ex) won't even consider whm anymore. Why bring whm when you can have two of the jobs that can support buff the pt? When you guys are no longer wearing shitty gear you will see astro heals plenty enough to belong in progression. I used to main whm and never had to rely on divine seal, why would I now?

I would think any intelligent raid leader would allow flexibility rather than "you must play XXX job or get lost" :), maybe your raid leader ain't that intelligent too!! :)