Frontlines: Leechers and Feeders

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Capture the Flag, Capture/Hold Bases, King of the Hill. Simple objectives, self explanatory what needs to happen.

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I know you are talking about RW-sized groups but on that note I'd also love to have small scale objective-based pvp modes other than CC. Capture the flag, hold the base or king of the hill but with 5-8 people.

I love hearing people just come out with "Keep it simple, and keep it fun, and keep the jobs somewhat balanced. Thats all it takes for PvP to thrive."

Well- if it was easy to do then anyone would just crank out PvP blockbuster AAA games by the dozen. In reality, you can probably focus on 1 or 2 of those objectives, but the third is going to be difficult to be done as well as you want.

Personally- I 'm not really motivated by "simple", fun of course is relative but I do want it to be fun, and I do want balance to be stressed. I don't want the PvP team to look at balance changes only ever 2 years (i.e. as per the present) - however I don't want them to go overboard and have some FOMO with major nerfs etc every minor release.

I agree that the FFXIV community is incentivized by rewards, every community is. As long as they are carefully considered, I don't have an issue with rewards. For that reason- adding some to RW would be fine. However- I like RW, I don't want the mode changed- for that reason, I have long wanted the mandatory completion of a tutorial quest for both FL and especially RW - that would also include concepts such as setting up - there's a lot of ground to cover- aside from the UI and the maps, and the basic strategy - there's the basics -PvP hotbars, switching jobs, etc.

Its impressive how much mogtomes bring the quality of FL matches down, even if the bar is low without. Someone needs to ask them to play western FL in one of those media events.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I love hearing people just come out with "Keep it simple, and keep it fun, and keep the jobs somewhat balanced. Thats all it takes for PvP to thrive."

Well- if it was easy to do then anyone would just crank out PvP blockbuster AAA games by the dozen. In reality, you can probably focus on 1 or 2 of those objectives, but the third is going to be difficult to be done as well as you want.

Personally- I 'm not really motivated by "simple", fun of course is relative but I do want it to be fun, and I do want balance to be stressed. I don't want the PvP team to look at balance changes only ever 2 years (i.e. as per the present) - however I don't want them to go overboard and have some FOMO with major nerfs etc every minor release.

I agree that the FFXIV community is incentivized by rewards, every community is. As long as they are carefully considered, I don't have an issue with rewards. For that reason- adding some to RW would be fine. However- I like RW, I don't want the mode changed- for that reason, I have long wanted the mandatory completion of a tutorial quest for both FL and especially RW - that would also include concepts such as setting up - there's a lot of ground to cover- aside from the UI and the maps, and the basic strategy - there's the basics -PvP hotbars, switching jobs, etc.

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If you're going to reply to me, use my name next time.

Why do you suppose that 15+ year old games STILL have lively PvP communities attached to them? It's because they adhere to the principles of simplicity. Modern Triple AAA Don't want block buster titles. They want fast cash, with as little investment as possible. Pay to win games full to the brim with microtransactions, cosmetics, gacha, and FoMo. Milk the whales, kill the game when things slow down, repeat as necessary. FFXIV wants to hold people hostage to the subscription. You better believe there is going to be more FoMo to keep you playing, and paying, regardless of how bad the PvP matches get, or how long the content droughts become.

If you need a wall of text to explain how a PvP mode functions, you've already failed. FFXIV is a community of PvE players, which is fantastic because they don't even understand dying on Frontlines costs their team points, or that they can change jobs mid match at the spawn point. If they can't even figure that out, they're never going to understand Rival Wings. There is too much ground to cover, and nobody is going to care to find out because the queue is dead when the mogtome event ends, and even if the queue wasn't dead, there is still no incentive to perform well. Only for matches to end quickly, and if we ever got a roulette for Rival Wings I guarantee people would be complaining about it constantly.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

If you're going to reply to me, use my name next time.

Why do you suppose that 15+ year old games STILL have lively PvP communities attached to them? It's because they adhere to the principles of simplicity. Modern Triple AAA Don't want block buster titles. They want fast cash, with as little investment as possible. Pay to win games full to the brim with microtransactions, cosmetics, gacha, and FoMo. Milk the whales, kill the game when things slow down, repeat as necessary. FFXIV wants to hold people hostage to the subscription. You better believe there is going to be more FoMo to keep you playing, and paying, regardless of how bad the PvP matches get, or how long the content droughts become.

If you need a wall of text to explain how a PvP mode functions, you've already failed. FFXIV is a community of PvE players, which is fantastic because they don't even understand dying on Frontlines costs their team points, or that they can change jobs mid match at the spawn point. If they can't even figure that out, they're never going to understand Rival Wings. There is too much ground to cover, and nobody is going to care to find out because the queue is dead when the mogtome event ends, and even if the queue wasn't dead, there is still no incentive to perform well. Only for matches to end quickly, and if we ever got a roulette for Rival Wings I guarantee people would be complaining about it constantly.

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I agree that overly complex modes appeal to a niche market. I also agree that FFXIV is largely composed of PVE players. It's up to FFXIV whether they want to continue to support what is a a very small segment of their player population going forwards - personally I would see that it could stay on, but get minimal investment. PvP likely goes into modes that are, as you say- easier for people to jump into and understand.

If you seriously think that FFXIV PvP would ever resemble a P2P PvP game- I don't ever see that happening. There would have to be massive changes to the PvP system, in addition to the monetization system, I just don't see it. Not to mention - the game runs so poorly in PvP , just fixing that would be a major hurdle.

it is the same on the other teams?!?

Make it easier to report as well as to kick people so you can kick in combat and before 5 minutes has passed, make it serious voting system, so if abused, just because don't like someone you will get punished... and to those that try to leach too much... will be flagged so can't do Front lines and PvP for a month including Alliance raid and MSQ Roulette.

Make the Vote thing so it blocks the screen so you are enforced to click it to go away as well and or if refuse to vote and let it stay there... it will automatically vote yes after 20 seconds.

5 Seconds AFK at start without moving out of the start area results in auto kick from duty.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

The current system of rewarding exp, series, and tomes at the end of a match because one clicked 'commence' on the duty pop without taking their performance into consideration is being abused by players who refuse to participate.

These players often try to mask the fact they're not participating by constantly throwing themselves at enemy players, because it makes it more difficult to spot them vs someone standing in one spot on the map the entire match.

Once the game ends, it doesn't matter that the scoreboard shows them having thrown the match because they have already received their rewards, and are off to do it again with a new group of people in a new match.

Even when you do end up noticing one of these players, pointing them out is quickly met with hostility, and other alliance members trying to defend them. "It's just Frontlines" and "I'm only here for the exp" constantly being used as if to excuse their behavior.

It has been way past due to fix the broken system that allows such lethargic and poor behavior. Relying on players to send nearly a full-party worth of player reports after every match isn't a functional system.

https://i.imgur.com/NbjmS1E.jpeg

This picture was from 5 matches. A vast majority of these players had multiple 100s (not sprouts).

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the issue is the average ff14 player demands they get rewards for doing little to nothing.
To them running the daily once and just feeding as fast as possible gets them the rewards they want. I personally dont think you sgould get anything if you place 3rd.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

it is the same on the other teams?!?

Make it easier to report as well as to kick people so you can kick in combat and before 5 minutes has passed, make it serious voting system, so if abused, just because don't like someone you will get punished... and to those that try to leach too much... will be flagged so can't do Front lines and PvP for a month including Alliance raid and MSQ Roulette.

Make the Vote thing so it blocks the screen so you are enforced to click it to go away as well and or if refuse to vote and let it stay there... it will automatically vote yes after 20 seconds.

5 Seconds AFK at start without moving out of the start area results in auto kick from duty.

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do any of that and games will be dead or lopsided teams. Vote systems are abused, try playing chivarly or mordhau and run into someone who doesnt like you. Instant nonstop vote kick til youre gone.

Here's a quick tip to those queuing into FL with absolutely no intention of actually playing the mode: Do not queue in as DRK. People will tend to follow you around and quickly notice you're sitting on your mount hiding behind a rock.

And to everyone else, I strongly encourage you to report this BS. It's getting completely out of hand.

I sympathize, but just for a moment it was actually hilarious to imagine someone getting caught out by that, I just had an image of someone thinking they're being so smart, then looking over their shoulder to see at least a party hiding behind the same rock.