People who can't do AOE rotations in 70+ Content

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

It's not even about being an elitist or anything like that either. These people who defend and enable these other people to drag down a party of players think they are being "nice". That's what gets me - common courtesy would make you think everyone contributes, or at least TRIES to contribute because it is the polite and courteous thing to do when you are playing with other people. The ones who refuse to do their share are not respecting anyone else's time or effort, and can be pretty nasty about it too, but people are defending them? It's absolutely mind boggling.

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I think what you and many others don't understand is that most of us don't like being queued with bad players, It's not a good experience, but there's nothing we can do about it. It's just unfortunately part of the package of playing with real people.

If complaining about others changed their behavior to the better this community would be perfect, but that's not the case. So if yelling at the players doesn't work and we're having this tired conversation once a day, let's at least be productive about it and talk about how the game can do a better job preparing players to higher level duties.

Or, you know, make another 20 pages thread about how bad players should only play single player content with not one of those players reading a single post of it.

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Originally Posted by Leonerdo

I just don't see why it's a big deal. At worst, if one DPS is entirely afk, the dungeon just takes 10 minutes longer. It's not worth leaving over something like that. Nor is it worth it to try and teach them the basics of the game in between pulls. In 20 minutes, it won't be your problem anymore.

As for kicking, I personally don't kick people unless they're literally afk, but I guess that's fine if it works for you. I just don't think it's worth it to save 5-10 minutes. It sours the mood of the whole dungeon, and you might not even succeed at kicking if you don't have a friend with you.

So I don't even bother worrying about the DPS most of the time. Maybe I'll notice pulls are dying slowly and get mildly annoyed, but whatever, it happens, it's Duty Finder. The only reason I'm in DF in the first place is to relax and waste time on something easy, so why should I care if it's not a perfect speedrun? (Unless both DPS players are single-target-only and every pull takes 3 minutes... then I might want to leave, if I have something else I can waste my time on instead. But that happens less than 1% of the time, so kinda irrelevant.)

That being said, bad tanks and healers are a slightly different story, because they can cause wipes.

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Lmao wdym. If a dps is not doing any aoe they are AFK and they should be kicked, are you trolling or what. You literally spend like over a couple hundred overs getting through all the expansions, you're telling me that by level 80-90 it's ok to not even know the basics of every dungeon you've done?? Like bro even if you don't read your tooltips it's common sense lmao

And yes, kick the person if they aren't doing anything. Hitting a single target on a mob isn't doing anything. What sours my mood is when people defend this shitty behavior. I have to put effort into aoe'ing and doing things correctly enough to move things, so do you. I'm not interested in carrying or being carried lol

And it can absolutely cause wipes btw if the mobs take too long to die. CDs exist you know, tanks can run out of mits and healers/the other dps can run out of resources too.

some people can't and since the team has to account for people being that bad, we end up with the current normal difficulty we have. Because god forbid you having to learn how to play your job at a basic level.

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Originally Posted by Leonerdo

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See here's the thing. You yourself said it was a problem, just one that someone doesn't have to deal with again. So the person goes on to be a problem for other people. Note I'm specifically talking about leechers here who are looking for a free ride while not actually contributing. Why is it okay for this person to grief you and your group and then go off to continue to grief other groups? Why are you defending people that don't respect you enough to not waste your time? And yes, bad DPS absolutely can cause a wipe, if the trash mobs take too long to kill, the tank runs out of CDs and then the healer runs out of resources. Everyone has a part to play in a dungeon, and as group content, everyone should at least be trying. That's all I ask.

And in a dungeon, if you have a friend with you, the absolute only way a kick won't go through is if your friend votes no for some reason. A dungeon only needs two votes yes to kick someone, as 2 > 1.

And on your point about a good tank/healer can carry a group, sure they can, but should they be expected to? Again, why is the expectation that we let griefers leech off people actually trying and make things harder for those that are trying instead of holding the griefers accountable for their actions? Why are we defending lethargic gameplay that hurts everyone? Why are we defending jerks that don't respect your time?

And again, I'm specifically talking about players just looking for a free ride. Thankfully, as has been mentioned a few times already, those players are a minority. I have zero issue with low skill/new players as long as they are receptive to polite advice.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Please stick to Squadrons, Duty Support, and Trust.

This is aimed at people who like to do single target rotations when people wall to wall for them. You're legitimately a detriment to the party.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

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FFXIV is changing rapidly and a lot of people love it. Parsing, mandating rotations in dungeons, wall to wall pulls when players can’t handle it. FFXIV is rising to the mantle of being the most competitive and “hardcore” MMO since WoW lost its cojones to DBM. Not all of us will be happy with these changes, but with parsing once again confirmed to be in the “grey area”, hardcore raiders have a pretty secure future ahead of them. During ShB you’d be lambasted for being toxic, but nowadays I think you’re in a good position to make these demands.

As for me, I signed up for FFXIV as a casual and light-raider type, and this attitude makes me squeamish. Not because you’re wrong, but because of why you post. It’s not about people doing single-target rotations—that’s rare. You want to control the playerbase through force of will, and you conjure up this false image of FFXIV as being “toxic casual” to scare us into doing otherwise. To apply pressure to other players and the reader to make dungeons go faster for yourself. It’s called “compelling a play style”, and it used to be against the rules. But as we all know, the hardcores set the rules these days and not us.

Maybe we’ve gone full-circle: what was once a respite from the WoW mentality has now exceeded it, while casuals are flocking back to WoW. You like this? You want what Blizzard had during the dark ages?

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Originally Posted by Sufjann

how the game can do a better job preparing players to higher level duties

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This really needs to happen. Right now the MSQ does the absolute bare minimum and yet it’s a majority of the content that people will play. How can we blame the player for doing exactly what the game expects?

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Originally Posted by Sufjann

I think what you and many others don't understand is that most of us don't like being queued with bad players, It's not a good experience, but there's nothing we can do about it. It's just unfortunately part of the package of playing with real people.

If complaining about others changed their behavior to the better this community would be perfect, but that's not the case. So if yelling at the players doesn't work and we're having this tired conversation once a day, let's at least be productive about it and talk about how the game can do a better job preparing players to higher level duties.

Or, you know, make another 20 pages thread about how bad players should only play single player content with not one of those players reading a single post of it.

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I do get that, but you know what? Literally kick them. It's that simple! Part of playing with others should not be "you are forced to carry someone looking for a free ride". Absolutely not. You have the means of stopping it, actually use it!

I think we can all agree that when it comes to in game mechanic, they really don't explain it well. Still waiting for them to update the hall of the novice.

Lets take time. a dungeon run should take about 15 mins at least. I know people always will say that 30 its fine. yeah it is but however i can legit run four dungeons if im leveling something and not two. Or i can run all my dungeon roulettes within a really good time frame an still have time to do other things.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

This really needs to happen. Right now the MSQ does the absolute bare minimum and yet it’s a majority of the content that people will play. How can we blame the player for doing exactly what the game expects?

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Or people can read their tool-tips and also practice on a training dummy? There are tools in the game that SE has given us to practice, yet it's apparently SE's fault and not the players who just dive into whatever content knowing less than the bare minimum.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

I do get that, but you know what? Literally kick them. It's that simple! Part of playing with others should not be "you are forced to carry someone looking for a free ride". Absolutely not. You have the means of stopping it, actually use it!

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wait, so this isn't a 'make the dungeon faster' thing but the principle of 'you are forced to carry someone looking for a free ride'? Really? How do you gauge who is looking for a free ride?

I love these PSAs on these forums, read by 1% of the player base, who probably already press the required 2-3 buttons for AoE "rotations". AoE is very uninspiring in this game, the newest "expert" dungeon is painful to get for precisely that reason.