Smn Rework Suggestions After LL

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Such claims confuse me always. I see a lot of summoners running around in any content and given to ff.logs, SMN is as much played as RDM, NIN, DRG in the endgame meanwhile BLM is on the level of MNK, BRD, MCH which fall hard behind for obvious reasons. Only SAM overshines them all followed by DNC. So i really can´t underline "most of us are", "play XY instead.

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I wish I could find them. I will often see Sam, Nin, Drg, Rdm and Blm if caster i'm usually the only SMN lmao. And if I hear anything about SMN it's usually very negative compared to RDM and BLM even the recent wowfugee streamers follow this mindset of it being a bad class in it's current state and opt for rdm/blm

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

I wish I could find them. I will often see Sam, Nin, Drg, Rdm and Blm if caster i'm usually the only SMN lmao. And if I hear anything about SMN it's usually very negative compared to RDM and BLM even the recent wowfugee streamers follow this mindset of it being a bad class in it's current state and opt for rdm/blm

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Seriously in stuff like daily-roulette you´ll find more leveling classes than anything else. Since SMN is for sure a popular starter class, they won´t show up there as often as a BLM for example. Ppl just level all classes to 80 and obviously don´t play their mains then. I did the same and will never touch the most classes again until the next level cap appears, but i´ll stay on MNK and Tanks for the endgame.
And in stuff like bozja / eureka... the most pick a healer or RDM for obvious reasons too.

(So if anything, the most classes you see in daily-roulette are either classes which can be unlocked late in the game or are more unpopular than everything else. ((Maybe)) And ppl have different opinions... of course those who dislike something, are the loudest. Those who like something, just play and enjoy it! )

Stringent lore restrictions that negatively impact people's enjoyment =/= the thematic basis or structure of longstanding jobs. If you cannot understand this, there is little point in pressing the issue further because you are clearly grasping at anything and everything to justify the failed state of current SMN. After 8 years of warlocks telling me to go play another class or another game, I’m merely saying the same that was said to me for so long.

Indulging their requests for so long brought the class to its breaking point. So please go play bard and leave us real summoners in peace, unless your intent is to also destroy that class mechanically and aesthetically after it too was fixed for 6.0 by giving it more musical abilities. If you cannot find any satisfaction, then simply take a break until 7.0’s new dot class is released. You won’t have to wait nearly as long as I did for a real summoner in this game, that’s for sure.

Also, G'raha Tia essentially was sacrificed seeing as how in previous games, crystallization = death or passage into immortal life/heaven. Again, another recurring theme in the series. However, his survival will ultimately be for the better since he not only adds functionality as an all-rounder trust for EW but also adds more to the story as a new party member who gave so much in order to be a part of our journey.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Stringent lore restrictions that negatively impact people's enjoyment =/= the thematic basis or structure of longstanding jobs. If you cannot understand this, there is little point in pressing the issue further because you are clearly grasping at anything and everything to justify the failed state of current SMN. After 8 years of warlocks telling me to go play another class or another game, I’m merely saying the same that was said to me for so long.

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You know a class is broken, when you have to constantly defend it in every conversation. Literally me anytime summoner is the topic even in-game lol. There are a minority who liked the broken state of SMN but that much more who hated it. The amount of times you see ''I might actually play summoner now'', ''they made summoner cool'', in all the reactions is very telling of the sentiment held for summoner compared to all other jobs heh.

All that remains that needs to be fixed now, is physick. WHY IS IT STILL THERE.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Stringent lore restrictions that negatively impact people's enjoyment =/= the thematic basis or structure of longstanding jobs. If you cannot understand this, there is little point in pressing the issue further because you are clearly grasping at anything and everything to justify the failed state of current SMN.

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I don´t grasp for anything to justify the current state of SMN. I´ve claimed more than once that both are no SMN´s for me, just with the addition that the new one is nothing more than -dots +animations = still no real SMN gameplay.
And it´s still YOUR enjoyment, not those of others. Some ppl enjoy the current SMN, some might enjoy the new SMN, i would enjoy something way different. And you started the "FF series lore" about SMN as argument, just to not care about it in the next moment. It makes the argument completely invalid and shows, that you grasp for stuff to argue for your own, not for others, not for the lore and not for the gameplay. (Since you don´t even know, if it would really match your expectations.)

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Stringent lore restrictions that negatively impact people's enjoyment =/= the thematic basis or structure of longstanding jobs. If you cannot understand this, there is little point in pressing the issue further because you are clearly grasping at anything and everything to justify the failed state of current SMN. After 8 years of warlocks telling me to go play another class or another game, I’m merely saying the same that was said to me for so long.

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K but the lore reasons for mechanics that made the class complex and engaging was a positive impact for me, and other people who currently play summoner, and they made sense in the context of Hydaelyn and allowed for fun class fantasy. The only thing about the lore that seemed off was the "sorry we can't make egis more graphically impressive 'cause ps3/potato users" justifications for the egis' designs and the "sorry we can't give you any more egis 'cause we ran out of ideas".

But really who died and made your opinions the definition of "true summoner"? People have repeatedly made the point that the summoner role has NEVER been consistent in FF. And yet you meet their points with name calling and gatekeeping and just sating "true summoner" like it's fact. We've all been playing A DEFINITIVE NUMBERED FINAL FANTASY® BRAND SUMMONER™ for 8 years, but no that doesn't count because it doesn't count because...?? Oh right, it's a design that didn't line up with your own personal opinions.

Did you even play the current iteration of summoner?
Can you give any constructive criticisms of it outside of "I don't like dots" or saying something incredibly vague like saying it's not a "true summoner"? Can you contribute to the discussion about how it will play different from what we currently have that isn't tied to its attack animations?

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

You know a class is broken, when you have to constantly defend it in every conversation.

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Players just cry way to much about gameplay, just because they like some aesthetics or the role to be a SMN, MNK, MCH, whatever class is discussed permanently.

There is no acceptance for those, who like a class as it is and played it for ages. There isn´t even acceptance for those, who finished any content with a class, not just the braindead dungeons. It lacks fully of acceptance, because ppl are selfish and want everything to be catered to them.

That´s the big issue, not that a class is more special, not so often played or without 1000 meme´s. FF14 has so many class to offer and a bunch of ppl still insist that the last class on gods earth needs to be made for them for whatever reason. (And yes, in the most cases those ppl are just bad or too lazy to practice a class, maybe even feared like "i can´t do this" and stay on an easy job to cater their self-consciousness.)
This brought us to the point we´re at.

And i really get the "love" to the new SMN. But gameplay-wise it´s NOTHING! Atleast not the stuff Yoshi showed us. It´s just another step to the class homogenization with some bling-bling to cater some ppl meanwhile a bunch of current SMN mains is getting fckd up. Objectively seen SMN will make a step back in complexity and uniqueness, no matter if someone likes it or not.

EDIT: Really ppl needs to stop to get blinded by minor issues, some animations or even self-made issues. Do you play a game to play or just to watch some animations and for freeloot by pressing 3 buttons in an order?

I have played every mainline FF title and I have levelled SMN to 80 a grand total of one time in comparison to the multiple times I've levelled BLM and RDM across several of my alts. Poison mage gameplay sucks. When I want to grind Eden/NieR for glams as a caster I vastly prefer those two classes as opposed to affliction warlock. I know what a real summoner looks and feels like because I have experienced every game where they've shown up. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, sorry. Go look up on youtube what summoners have been like in past games so you can get an idea of what I mean in terms of its aesthetic and gameplay. In 6.0 I will proceed to actually play summoner beyond simply levelling it and forgetting about it afterwards along with my other classes.

I'm largely uninterested in hearing your defense of a job that got so bad it had to be reworked from the ground up.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Did you even play the current iteration of summoner?
Can you give any constructive criticisms of it outside of "I don't like dots" or saying something incredibly vague like saying it's not a "true summoner"? Can you contribute to the discussion about how it will play different from what we currently have that isn't tied to its attack animations?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I have played every mainline FF title and I have levelled SMN to 80 a grand total of one time in comparison to the multiple times I've levelled BLM and RDM across several of my alts. Poison mage gameplay sucks. When I want to grind Eden/NieR for glams as a caster I vastly prefer those two classes as opposed to affliction warlock. I know what a real summoner looks and feels like because I have experienced every game where they've shown up. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, sorry. Go look up on youtube what summoners have been like in past games so you can get an idea of what I mean in terms of its aesthetic and gameplay. In 6.0 I will proceed to actually play summoner beyond simply levelling it and forgetting about it afterwards along with my other classes.

I'm largely uninterested in hearing your defense of a job that got so bad it had to be reworked from the ground up.

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So that's a no to all of that then. K.

At any rate, you should go try the current version before they delete it. You might like it.
I didn't like dots OR pets before I played it.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I'm largely uninterested in hearing your defense of a job that got so bad it had to be reworked from the ground up.

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A bunch of classes have been reworked over the time just because of whiny ppl and not because they´ve been so bad and unplayable. And those on the cost of players who enjoyed them and not even for the better gameplay-wise. The dumbdowns are real.
I´m pretty sure, that nobody would say a word if the classes would stay in their core and get advanced with more complexity, uniqueness or even simple fixes to real issues. But the homogenization and dumbdowns are something different and completely unneccessary.

But well, i´m not catered now and i won´t get catered with SMN in the future. You´ll get catered and SE shows their middlefinger to all actual SMN mains. So why care about it? Everything is fine, isn´t it?