Why was FFXI so great?

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Originally Posted by OJtheLIONKing

That doesn't mean they don't have a problem. Also, in your example with WoW, that's a one time thing per major patch, and doesn't actually give anything besides an epeen title. Pandemonium Warden, by contrast, was an NM that dropped top tier gear and that could spawn whenever someone got to it--that means you could make it a semi-regular 18 hour timesink. Essentially, Blizzard used an ingame mechanism to acknowledge the epeen tendency of some, while SE designed a large part of their game to accommodate only obsessive players.

What really frustrated me was, at the time, some FFXI players were blaming the players for not trying a different strategy if it took so long--never mind the fact that it took them weeks, if not months to get to that point and they only had one shot, and had no way of knowing if that was the correct strat since they were the first to try it.

Let me emphasize that the majority of players I knew from my time in FFXI were great people and I still keep in touch with a few on facebook, but some players refuse to see any wrong in the game or acknowledge that there's any way to do something besides the FFXI way. You're seeing a good portion of them on this forum, and in this thread.

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Whats funny though is the top guilds in WoW actually get sponsors for killing whatever first. Usually computer related hardware companies.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

That's because some people have different opinions to you. Most people on both sides of the argument are so sure they're right. Simple fact is we just have different views. I'm sorry that I enjoy the things which you don't, and vice versa. This is probably never going to be reconciled.

Also saying that you're OK with the way FFXI did things is not the same as saying 'there's no other way to do things'. And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop implying I have "a problem" -_-

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Hey, it's fine to have different opinions. People are entitled to think that FFXI did some things well that I disagree with, some of those friends I mentioned included.

There's a difference between that and some of the ridiculous worshipful posts I've seen on this forum that treat FFXI like it was a landmark in human history that changed the face of gaming. I think it was a good game, not the best game I've ever played, but good. The MMO community as a whole treats it as a footnote at best, most people don't even know it introduced the modern concept of the auction house. Only a fraction of former players think it was a great sea change for gaming.

And sorry, but no one should spend 18 hours in one sitting on a game. People have died in net cafes with less time spent than that. It's completely unacceptable for any game to design anything to take even a third of that time in one sitting. I'm not one to accuse people of having issues, but I will say that's not a healthy thing to do, without singling you out personally. If you do it and take offense, that's your business.

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Whats funny though is the top guilds in WoW actually get sponsors for killing whatever first. Usually computer related hardware companies.

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That's true, and kind of sad. But it's not really Blizzard's dev team itself putting ingame incentives for doing it, it's a third party business capitalizing on it. There's a difference.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

That Final Fantasy XI must have been from the mirror universe. It certainly was not from this one.

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Drop rates on items in FFXI were almost always above 15%, closer to 30% with a decent amount of HNM drops. This is opposed to the 1-2% drop rate per chest in current dungeons in FFXIV. In FFXI if you did something (whether it be once a day or less often) it was very likely your LS would get a drop.

Maybe you're the one living in the mirror universe.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Drop rates on items in FFXI were almost always above 15%, closer to 30% with a decent amount of HNM drops. This is opposed to the 1-2% drop rate per chest in current dungeons in FFXIV. In FFXI if you did something (whether it be once a day or less often) it was very likely your LS would get a drop.

Maybe you're the one living in the mirror universe.

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In his defense.
I been trying to get my Koga Chainmail for 5 years. I quit before I got one. Just one example I can think of.

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Originally Posted by OJtheLIONKing

And sorry, but no one should spend 18 hours in one sitting on a game. People have died in net cafes with less time spent than that.

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I agree it's not a healthy thing to do often. But done very occasionally I do not think it's remotely unhealthy unless you're suffering from some pretty extreme health problems or have already neglected to drink anything for 2 days. Nobody has ever died from playing a video game for 18 hours in one sitting (or the population of the United States would have taken a sharp dive when Skyrim was released). It's not uncommon for me to pull hours like that at work, and I work in a hazardous environment and high temperatures. Healthy people don't just die after 18 hours of sitting down for most of the day.

And I have gamed for 18 hours before. Probably about three times in the last ten years. I don't think this constitutes having a problem. I don't think anyone should be told they have issues for having done it before.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

I agree it's not a healthy thing to do often. But done very occasionally I do not think it's remotely unhealthy unless you're suffering from some pretty extreme health problems or have already neglected to drink anything for 2 days. Nobody has ever died from playing a video game for 18 hours in one sitting (or the population of the United States would have taken a sharp dive when Skyrim was released). It's not uncommon for me to pull hours like that at work, and I work in a hazardous environment and high temperatures. Healthy people don't just die after 18 hours of sitting down for most of the day.

And I have gamed for 18 hours before. Probably about three times in the last ten years. I don't think this constitutes having a problem.

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I've worked 18 hour days in very unhealthy conditions myself, and I'm not dead. But it's not a healthy thing to do, and certainly shouldn't be encouraged by basing game content around it. The thing about "once in a while" is that you already have to have been putting in pretty extensive hours in the game to even get to the point of fighting something like Pandemonium Warden.

I put in some long hours when Skyrim came out, but I knew my limits. When I noticed I was spending a while, I turned the game off and did something outside for a bit, or slept depending on the time of day. The difference is Skyrim doesn't have any bosses or content that requires 18 hours, or even 30 minutes, to clear by itself--instead it has many many many many many smaller things to do that add up to probably the most epic thing I've ever played. I think other games could learn from that example. You can clear everything in Skyrim with no more than 15-20 minutes a night...probably over ten years, but the point is it doesn't require long hours.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

In his defense.
I been trying to get my Koga Chainmail for 5 years. I quit before I got one. Just one example I can think of.

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Dang, and I thought that guy that did Salvage for almost a year before getting his 35 body was unlucky.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Drop rates on items in FFXI were almost always above 15%, closer to 30% with a decent amount of HNM drops. This is opposed to the 1-2% drop rate per chest in current dungeons in FFXIV. In FFXI if you did something (whether it be once a day or less often) it was very likely your LS would get a drop.

Maybe you're the one living in the mirror universe.

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Seriously?

o.o

Seriously.



http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Nidhogg

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/King_Behemoth

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Aspidochelone

^ Minimum 72 hours between pops. One pop per server.



http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Proto-Omega

^ Minimum 144 hours to pop, if you farmed all four chips in one day with an LS of decent size, and then the 72 hour wait before you can re-enter Apollyon.


http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Proto-Ultima

Minimum 216 hours to pop, if you farmed all three first-tier chips in one day, then the 72 hour wait to farm the tier two chips, then the 72 hour wait to farm the actual NM.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dynamis

Needs no explanation.


http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Salvage

Requires explanation simply by virtue of how ridiculous it was.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Citadel_Chelonian

Maximum one per day, two if you did not go the day before, which is, really, one per day. Also required 1,500 Assault points, which necessitated usage of two Assault tags, which necessitated not farming Nyzul. Or, if you were really good, one assault tag, which still means not farming Nyzul, because you only got one per day. Yay!

3.1% drop rate, same as what you're complaining about in XIV, only guess what? You can only go once per day, as opposed to however many you like.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Skirmish_Pephredo

Same damn thing, except it was not even guaranteed to pop. My LS was 2/144 attempts, he popped on seven of those 144 runs.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Qiqirn_Astrologer

Maximum two per run, once per day. 6.7%.

Going for any of these Salvage NMs meant not going for the others listed.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sarameya

Required farming several tens of thousands of zeni to pop, which required either (A. Coordinated LS effort, or (B. if you were trying to get one for your own, to get an item, turning in at maximum 1,500 Zeni once per game day (every one hour). You would be fortunate to complete one a week, rounding people up to kill it. Drop rate ~13%.


I could go on.

You do need some limit to how fast you can do things...think about it. If everything is so easy and quick to get...everyone will be standing around complaining about nothing to do.

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Originally Posted by Jokerz

You do need some limit to how fast you can do things...think about it. If everything is so easy and quick to get...everyone will be standing around complaining about nothing to do.

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Isn't that kinda what's going on now with ffxiv? >_>
A friend of mine today /tell me "I might quit until 2.0 ... nothing to do" :(


To stay on topic of the OP's question:
Another thing I loved about FFXI was
LINKSHELL MESSAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ; ;

Oh and Summoner job. That one was my favorite before it was cool to be one... if it ever was cool to be one? lol
And it was HARD.. had to have max fame in the cities before you could even take a crack at the avatars... even then (when I was doing it) it was hard to get help. I ended up doing the mini fights and went totally broke ; ; BUT I HAD ALL MY SUMMONS! So while I was gil-less... I was giddy to be able to summon them!