So, can we just ban damage meters already.

I can tell when DPS don't AoE without a meter.

Everything takes forever to die then. Then i need to heal more. If i run out of my cooldowns i usually comfortably use for big pulls, then something isn't right.

I also can tell when DPS don't do much DPS on bosses.
How so?
well, many factors sometimes, but biggest of all:
You see more mechanics. Sometimes you see mechanics you never saw before because the boss took forever to die.

I mean, it depends on how you tell people, yes, but you can notice that by itself.

Might add that mega dps is not expected, but after the fourth mechanic rotation, you do start to wonder what's going wrong here.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

That's commendable, and I applaud you for it. What I don't applaud is expecting everyone else in the game to take it that seriously. The guy who just wants to level his ninja to expedite mat farming for his leatherworking doesn't need lessons from the performance police while running his daily roulette at level 30. Who are you to judge his attitude? You play your way and he'll play his. When this guy wants to run raids with your FC, then by all means lay into him. There's a time and place for criticism.

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Level 30 is not an area to judge. I would say 50 would be an area where your performance should be getting there.

I have always personally gone by the rule that under level 50, being new to a dungeon, or new content being released is an acceptable area to not expect great performance. Level 1-50 throws a lot of crap at you for being new to the game, with +50 being the areas where you are expected to know what's what with your main class, and building on your class (with the exception of what seems to be BLM, which for some reason changes drastically every 10 levels for whatever reason SE decided)

I would say expecting DPS to AOE in groups of +3 mobs is a given, for example. If at level 50 you can't figure that one out - you're going to have a problem down the road.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Why are people talking about irl jobs. Working a job and playing a game are barely related. What, you can't run a farm irl? No wonder your gathering gear is so bad. Like what.

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I used to play cards with my brother when we were younger - me about 12, he around 8 years old. He had a really bad temper and would throw the cards around whenever he came close to losing or he would try to make up rules or lie about the rules we had agreed on previously. So I eventually stopped playing with him because that wasnt fun.
It was still just a game though, right?

Its not about treating this like a job, its about treating everyone in your party with respect and that simply goes both ways: No harrassment - and no severe under-performing or holding back the party because you couldnt be bothered to make sure you're prepared for the duty at hand (aka: geared up, repaired, proper knowledge of your job-rotation, able and willing to communicate and work with your party...)
Someone whos playing "badly" makes the whole run harder for the rest of the party, turning a run suddenly into hard "work" for the healer, the other dps or the tank. This isnt a job - but making other people put in more effort and work because you couldnt be bothered is still not okay. Your fun ends where the fun of other people begins.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Maybe it's my inexperience with this game talking, but in WoW, your optimal rotation was never achievable before max level. Optimizing your DPS before then was pretty pointless because half the time you didn't even have access to a key skill until max level. Is this game different in that regard?

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Yes and No - you obviously dont have all your skills before max level so you cant do your optimal rotation before that.
However the fundamental gameplay of your job changes little and basic principles stay the same. The leveling experience is supposed to provide you not only with experience points but with real experience of how your job is played. You dont start learning your rotation at level 80, you've done that on your way there. You dont start learning the difference between your single target and your AoE rotation in the last story dungeon, you show that you know that difference there.

The core of your job changes little on your way to max level.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

you have high expectations of what a Free Company will do for someone. Mine sure as heck won't carry someone who refuses to learn their class, and I'm in a casual one... I even asked a few people I've friended from other servers that I've played with, who added me as a friend due to my playstyle, and they sure as heck aren't in a Free Company that will carry someone.

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I don't know where you read me saying that the FC should "carry someone who refuses to learn their class." I explicitly stated that the FC would help them to learn their class: at max level, when it actually matters. I said that the time for players to learn how to properly play their classes in the end game is when they reach the end game, not in low level MSQ dungeons or roulettes. I also think players learn better from a group of friends with whom they regularly play than from abusive statements from tired career players who are running a roulette to tick the box on their daily to-do list. I never said that FCs should carry their new members.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

at max level, when it actually matters.

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Red flag if I've ever seen one.

https://i.imgur.com/jGSCpJO.png

Would you like an in-game parser?"

More people want a sanctioned parser than not, on the forums at least.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Red flag if I've ever seen one.

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Maybe it's my inexperience with this game talking, but in WoW, your optimal rotation was never achievable before max level. Optimizing your DPS before then was pretty pointless because half the time you didn't even have access to a key skill until max level. Is this game different in that regard?

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

well, many factors sometimes, but biggest of all:
You see more mechanics. Sometimes you see mechanics you never saw before because the boss took forever to die.

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You mean like this one? Which is SE's way of telling the group to "git gud".

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ecret_form_if/

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Maybe it's my inexperience with this game talking, but in WoW, your optimal rotation was never achievable before max level. Optimizing your DPS before then was pretty pointless because half the time you didn't even have access to a key skill until max level. Is this game different in that regard?

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In FFXIV all classes have an optimized rotation every 10 levels because of the way expansions are released. Usually the rotations are built around key skills still. The "main" key skill for classes usually comes a level 70, but even at level 50 & 60 you can get fairly good rotations for each class.

PLD is a good example, the rotation doesn't change much from 70 to 80, only really added Intervene being weaved twice in your opener, Atonement being used 3 times before reusing your dot after a 1-2-3 combo, and Confiteor being used instead of 1 Holy Spirit (So Holy Spirit x4 -> Confiteor instead of Holy Spirit x5)

The amount of resources that exist for people wanting to try new classes, or optimally learn classes they are currently playing are more then abundant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Maybe it's my inexperience with this game talking, but in WoW, your optimal rotation was never achievable before max level. Optimizing your DPS before then was pretty pointless because half the time you didn't even have access to a key skill until max level. Is this game different in that regard?

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WoW was never like that. Even in Vanilla. You always had a skill priority or rotation depending on what abilities you had at the time. As you got the new cap of each level, or through talents in the past, you'd then hit a power spike with more survival, healing or damage from said new abilities. But anyone who played the game knew there were priorities.