Issue with TBN

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Youre 1st statement is still completely wrong. Drk is not 'effectively' short anything. Dark mind exists. Dark is not"effectively short a defensive coooldown to compensate for TBN being as strong as it is". You cant just pretend the shortest cooldown cooldown in its class 'effectively' doesnt exist. It does, and its very powerful.

Your 2nd statement I didnt comment on because its not wrong as you were referencing the lack of physical mitigation and "75% fo the time" being dungeons, trash, autos, etc.

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You appear to be misunderstanding the word effectively. Once again, saying X is effectively Y is not saying IS Y, it's saying X may as well be Y. Dark Mind is so bad most of the time that it doesn't even get used, whereas the other tanks (with the exception of paladin) do have an extra button they can press during pulls that will provide additional mitigation. Therefore, because DRK can't use Dark Mind under most circumstances, it is effectively short a cooldown a lot of the time. I am not in any shape, way, or form implying that TBN doesn't exist or is weak. Where did you even get that? That being said, its short cooldown is more than made up for by its MP cost. The ability is not imbalanced at all.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

You appear to be misunderstanding the word effectively. Once again, saying X is effectively Y is not saying IS Y, it's saying X may as well be Y. Dark Mind is so bad most of the time that it doesn't even get used, whereas the other tanks (with the exception of paladin) do have an extra button they can press during pulls that will provide additional mitigation. Therefore, because DRK can't use Dark Mind under most circumstances, it is effectively short a cooldown a lot of the time. I am not in any shape, way, or form implying that TBN doesn't exist or is weak. Where did you even get that? That being said, its short cooldown is more than made up for by its MP cost. The ability is not imbalanced at all.

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I was talking about dark mind. It is (also) the shortest cooldown in its class and has functions in everything except trash pulls. Which is, again, why i didnt dispute your dungeon trash pull '75% of the time' comment. Dark mind is utterly amazing in everything that isnt million mob trash pull. Downplaying it as 'effectively not existing' is completely disingenous for one of the strongest mitigation skills in the game.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

I was talking about dark mind. It is (also) the shortest cooldown in its class and has functions in everything except trash pulls. Which is, again, why i didnt dispute your dungeon trash pull '75% of the time' comment. Dark mind is utterly amazing in everything that isnt million mob trash pull. Downplaying it as 'effectively not existing' is completely disingenous for one of the strongest mitigation skills in the game.

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We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. My assessment of Dark Mind is that it is simply not a powerful enough defensive to warrant being on a 90 second cooldown. Its circumstantially beneficial nature would be perfectly justifiable if it didn't take so long to come back up.

Having said all this, part of the reason I don't really care that Dark Mind isn't the greatest is just how strong TBN is. TBN being in DRK's kit more than compensates for that single shortcoming. DRK is balanced around having TBN in its kit. Being what it is, TBN is already one of the strongest (if not THE strongest) mitigation tools in the game. It more than makes up for Dark Mind not being particularly useful some of the time.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. My assessment of Dark Mind is that it is simply not a powerful enough defensive to warrant being on a 90 second cooldown. Its circumstantially beneficial nature would be perfectly justifiable if it didn't take so long to come back up.

Having said all this, part of the reason I don't really care that Dark Mind isn't the greatest is just how strong TBN is. TBN being in DRK's kit more than compensates for that single shortcoming. DRK is balanced around having TBN in its kit. Being what it is, TBN is already one of the strongest (if not THE strongest) mitigation tools in the game. It more than makes up for Dark Mind not being particularly useful some of the time.

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Dark mind is 60 secs. This thread is a just a bunch of misinformation thrown together. How can you expect to be taken seriously if you dont even know the proper numbers?

The funny part is that obviously Drk isn't hurting too bad. I say this because despite all of the complaints and being the weakest tank in terms of Dps, it is the 2nd most represented tank in savage if you were to take FFLogs as any indication. Although admittedly the variance is only 1% between the 2nd and 3rd with most representation.

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Originally Posted by Lanier

Dark mind is 60 secs. This thread is a just a bunch of misinformation thrown together. How can you expect to be taken seriously if you dont even know the proper numbers?

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Gee, it's almost like writing a message from a phone with a damaged screen is going to lead to the occasional error or something. I'm well aware that it's a 60 second cooldown. Regardless, I still stand by my original assessment that Dark Mind is inadequate in its current form.

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Originally Posted by Sancho_Nyanta

The funny part is that obviously Drk isn't hurting too bad. I say this because despite all of the complaints and being the weakest tank in terms of Dps, it is the 2nd most represented tank in savage if you were to take FFLogs as any indication. Although admittedly the variance is only 1% between the 2nd and 3rd with most representation.

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People tend to greatly exaggerate the disparity between highest and lowest. It's actually only about 5% even under completely optimal conditions. And really, you can't even reliably say DRK has the lowest DPS. DRK may pull ahead of WAR in certain raid comps or fall behind it in others. Regardless, TBN is such a powerful tool that DRK will probably continue to see heavy use until or unless the number disparity becomes much more significant than it is now.

I mean the disparity is pretty small all around comparing Drk's average DPS to the other 3

Compared to GBN it's 2% lower
Compared to Pld it's 1.76% lower
Compared to War it's 0.6% lower

So it isn't much of a difference.