The Healer Double Standard

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Originally Posted by reyre

Unless i am wrong, that is actually a nerf so instead of trying and fix an issue that according to you had little to do with dmg and or the overall dificulty of the fight but more to do with not so good restarting mechanics.

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Oh, no, I never meant to imply it wasn't a nerf. It nerfed the fight hard. Just wasn't much changed on the damage they did, or so I thought. Someone made a comment earlier.

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Originally Posted by reyre

So the whole rework is kind of pointless, since there is a somewhat high posiblity that even if the content at launch is hard it will be nerfed and healers will go back to whatever percentage of healing they are doing now but with more down time, since they made the pet, card and dps managament very streamlined? So why change it at all?

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"Balance" aka Homogenization.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

Come up with a solution that lets you keep your rotations without making your chosen class the META class for use.

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Ohhh. Ohhh ok now I see. You are a salty AST main who wants AST to be the meta go to... lol k.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

It feels like, in a vacuum he's not wrong. Tanks have to be able to DPS due to how Enmity works, but if tanks job is supposed to be just soaking up damage, they would need to have almost nothing but "Increases Enmity on target, increases Enmity in area, Lowers target's enmity" skills that do no damage. I bet tanks would absolutely riot if that happened, though.

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My friend who plays tank (WAR) doesn't see the issues with the healer changes. I told him, "what if you only had one 2-3 ability combo to keep aggro and do damage and the rest were just 'tanking' abilities." I think tanks would complain if that happened.

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

My friend who plays tank (WAR) doesn't see the issues with the healer changes. I told him, "what if you only had one 2-3 ability combo to keep aggro and do damage and the rest were just 'tanking' abilities." I think tanks would complain if that happened.

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Have you ever considered that vocal tanks don't represent every tank?

You tell me I get more traditionally tank stuff like counter attacks, target debuffing, ally protection, and short term active mitigation, and I'll be the happiest tank.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Have you ever considered that vocal tanks don't represent every tank?

You tell me I get more traditionally tank stuff like counter attacks, target debuffing, ally protection, and short term active mitigation, and I'll be the happiest tank.

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With a comment like this, I have to ask...Is it normal in most MMOs for 'healers' to really just...Heal? Is that common? I came from City of Heroes before this, where even the most healery of healer sets had buffs to utilize and attacks to work with.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

With a comment like this, I have to ask...Is it normal in most MMOs for 'healers' to really just...Heal? Is that common? I came from City of Heroes before this, where even the most healery of healer sets had buffs to utilize and attacks to work with.

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Apparently it's the case in WoW and ESO(Well, eso is weird in that you can choose whatever you want but I guess the meta is that if you are healer you better not have any attack skills or you suck)... but none of the other MMOs I've ever played had this weird healers don't attack mentality.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

With a comment like this, I have to ask...Is it normal in most MMOs for 'healers' to really just...Heal? Is that common? I came from City of Heroes before this, where even the most healery of healer sets had buffs to utilize and attacks to work with.

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Depends. There's a plethora of games out there now and it's not feasibly possible to play all of them and experience the content the various classes are designed around.

Generally speaking, themepark MMOs like FF14, the healers all have some measure of offensive capability. They have to - It's not party centric, so they need to be capable of dealing with the leveling process.

However if you want to go by various design schematas, in the Trinity System that FF14 uses, healers are traditionally not that diverse in their offensive capabilities, and their damage contributions are often minimal. When looking for more complex damage set ups, there is usually a common thread - You stop being a healer.

This is generally handled by having healing being the focus of play. It's usually a resource management game, and a more managerial approach to combat. You get various healing tools so you pick the right one for what you need, but misusing them means you go OOM and then everyone dies. The downtime with healing is usually punctuated with buffing, debuffing, or setting up mitigation options. FF14 however does not do this.

In fact, it heavily lacks variety in both tanking and healing roles. The whole point of having this division of role and responsibility is to -minimize what those players don't want to do- and -emphasize what they do want to do-.

Not every tank wants the same thing, yet every tank is designed the same way. Burst windows and boring filler combos.

Not every healer wants the same thing, yet every healer is designed the same way. Sporadic healing filled with rocks during down time.

Healers don't DPS in EvE and in ToR they have a DPS rotation about as basic as the 5.0 rotation plus one or two high cooldown oGCDs to allow a focus on healing efficiency games.

Dedicated healers in GW2 kinda dps but they really are setting up regen and cleanse combos doing so, and the way healing works in gw2 is... weird. Every class can play every role, and the optional thing to do is play every role while maining one, so if FFXIV treats the trinity as absolute gw2 basically doesn't have one. So the main healer focuses way less on high potency healing and more on being the guy casting two spells that combo to create an ape esuna zone because boss DOT is a way bigger part of that game. So they toss complex weaves of attacks out but for the specific goal of combining a water field type spell with a blast finisher, and will do very inefficient things to get that because in GW2 failing to cleanse dot every few seconds will wipe everyone.

I think the 'healers shouldn't heal' bit is a misaimed goal, healers attack in ToR and are fine. It is more that healers should not play essentislly as dps with an extra non-healing duty they try to minimize interaction with.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Have you ever considered that vocal tanks don't represent every tank?

You tell me I get more traditionally tank stuff like counter attacks, target debuffing, ally protection, and short term active mitigation, and I'll be the happiest tank.

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The issue, for me, is how much is simply too much? How many different regens, gcds heals, and instants do we need? Even now, healers don't make the most of their healing potential. It's the reason WHM is generally dropped after progression. So, is SE really going to change dungeons, etc... up so much that we'll actually need all that? And, if not, adding DPS or support abilities makes more sense than further healing.