Lack of content on patch release

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Ultimate fights aren't tied to any of the stories, people wouldn't have to rush any content to start progressing it.

The groups going for world first don't need the gear from the catch up patch, as they already have better gear from Sigmascape Savage. And as I said, this group of players is incredibly small.

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Yes, Ultimate is not tied to anything, but the point is those ppl asked for beign able to enjoy the rest of the content patch before having to do world prog and while this group of players are small they had contact with the dev team. Since ultimate so far has only been released 2 weeks after patch launch I'm safe to assume that their voice was heard

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

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Ultimate fights aren't tied to any of the stories, people wouldn't have to rush any content to start progressing it.

The groups going for world first don't need the gear from the catch up patch, as they already have better gear from Sigmascape Savage. And as I said, this group of players is incredibly small.

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I didn't say to rush to do world first races...
But to rush due to those races.

People who won't, or can't, participate in those directly may still want to participate indirectly via streams and such.
And the gap gives them time to get stuff done and prepare for those events.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

PvP content would not be self-sustaining in FFXIV because there is no open world PvP and I would like it to stay that way since that tends to bring out the worst in people. The instanced PvP is perfectly fine and can't break the rest of the game. It might not be the most exciting content, but it's not something you can just "okay I've done it, no need to do ever do it again".
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I said like a pvp mode.
Not like FFXIV's pvp.

PvP is inherently self sustaining, simply due to the fact that you're playing against another person, and thus the experience is always different.

It's content where the designer's effort gives continious content.


It also doesn't have to be open world pvp for it to be self sustaining.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

It's not a SE only problem though, most of the sector has the problem of not beign able to meet the content consumption demand so they restored to this trick that do have some reception from a part of the community. As such I don't think this is changing, especially if we don't compromise on grinding content like at all

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A problem is also SE recent decisions on splitting up patches. I have zero understanding why we have to wait weeks upon weeks to get next part of content instead of giving us heaven on high, msq, dungeon and next eureka.
It's hardly the devs issue if people feel overwhelmed to do everything at once, it's our own fault.

Instead of now where we got... Let's see.

Namazu - 10 min / day
Lighthouse raid - 30-45min/week
Dungeon - 20 min for like 3 days
MSQ - Couple hours

Ultimate as of 2 days ago - 1% of the endgamers can do.

Now we wait 4 weeks to get Eureka and another x weeks for Heavens on High for waiting on 4.4 in 3 months.

first of all the clears of kefka savage were said to be 10% of playerbase as such 10% can do ultimate, maybe 1% can only clear but you can still try it's not forbidden, also the streams on twicth are again high as such there's quite a draw to ultimate even if you are not partecipating directly.

Second The splitting of patch content is not done by SE only, as such it's not a problem that is present only in FFXIV, since it's done because the content creation cannot meet the content consumption rate and we had complaint in the past that past 2 weeks of patch release there was nothing else to do, SE has opted to do what other games are doing right now in the sector.

If anything SE's problem has always been catering too much to the complaint about grindy content, because like it or not grinding is what really makes MMOs going.( gear checks and timegates works too btw).

I'll repeat myself again so I'm not misunderstood, with this I'm not saying I'm endorsing the practice, I'ìm giving out context and informations of why it's happening, which is important to make a decision.
Just as I've said that there are some ppll that like the staggered release of content, I can understand their point of wiew and I disagree on their reasoning because of that, not just because I don't like the system.

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Originally Posted by Miyafuji

Please enlighten me as to what other patch has staggered content as deliberately as this one has.
And yes it is different, other patches have had much more to do on arrival even the "catch up" patches do for example, 3.3 had plenty of content to keep people occupied with.
Willing to bet on that statement? I would guess not because if you had read any of what I have posted in this thread I've mentioned that I really enjoy most content that is released and this is the first time I've actually been disappointing with the lack of new options on release of a large scale patch purely due to staggering the content out. So I guess this is just more childish accusations with no grounds attached how tiresome. Yawn.

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my memory must be really bad. what great stuff came out on the Rabanastre patch?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

my memory must be really bad. what great stuff came out on the Rabanastre patch?

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4.1

Kojin, housing, QOL, MSQ. Umm that's it?

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The trouble with PvE content is that it can't survive gear creep. There is absolutely no way to make any content that will not be a faceroll with the highest tier gear. If the players want the content to have any longevity, then the developers have to release story content on separate patches from side content knowing that players will spoil it immediately if too much content is released at once.

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Of course it can; FFXI - built by this same company - did this flawlessly for years. FFXIV could, too, even within its current model - just set iLevel caps lower. There's no reason, for instance, why Ala Mihgo should have an iLevel cap of i310. It was designed for an average of i280, meaning i290 makes it fairly easy, i300 makes it very easy, and i310 renders it almost completely trivial. So why cap the stats lower? The MSQ would benefit tremendously from this, too; even with the forced cutscenes in place on dungeons like Castrum or Praetorium, the content is completely trivialized. New players don't even see half the mechanics, nor is there any sense of epic when final bosses get shredded. It contributes to me not running the content as a veteran, too, because it's just boring now.

The reason PvE content is trivialized by gear creep is because SE is lazy and spineless. They don't want to put effort into truly horizontal progression a la FFXI. It requires creativity to do this well, which clearly the dev team lacks in many respects. Much easier to just scale the iLevel, keep sub-stats boring and predictable, and churn shit out in a monotonous fashion. They permit the abilities of the lowest common denominator to guide virtually every piece of content outside EX / Savage / Ultimate, which is why they allow all content outside of these three to become trivialized within 3-6 months of release via iLevel scaling and overly-generous iLevel caps. Heaven forbid they think up other methods to help people improve, rather than lowering the bar so that almost anyone can clear it after awhile.

But let's never forget that there absolutely are options. SE is making a choice not to pursue them. Everyone's got a right to their own opinion of this, whether they approve, disapprove, don't particularly care - whatever it may be. But it is absolutely incorrect to state that PvE content simply can't survive gear creep. There are at least two fundamental ways SE could permanently solve this issue, one of which is utterly trivial to implement no less. They're choosing not to.

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I will point out, though, that surviving gear creep and having longevity are two entirely separate things. SE needs to be more creative and move toward a deeper, horizontal itemization structure if they want PvE content to stay relevant. Again, they've got a blueprint: FFXIV's predecessor. FFXIV, with its modern combat engine and faster gameplay, could do far more than FFXI could in this respect, if SE had but the will to try. It is eminently doable, though.

Again with the FFXI argument, shall we drop it? They said they wouldn't pursue it since inception since they tried that mindset with 1.0 and it didn't work.
And don't tell me 1.0 wasn't like FFXI at all, because they said they used the same mindset when they created 1.0 so It's no my word it's the devs words on it

I get that ppl like horizzontal progression, but it won't happen and quite frankly the market is not really built to support that anymore.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

It's pretty much impossible outside of self-sustaining content, like a PVP mode, to make content at any rate close to what people can consume it at.

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Rogue-like dungeon crawler content, like Palace of the Dead
The new one should be coming soon

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Originally Posted by Remedi

And don't tell me 1.0 wasn't like FFXI at all, because they said they used the same mindset when they created 1.0 so It's no my word it's the devs words on it

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The only shared mindest was "what should happen? we can still finish it with patches after the release".
Many standard features, which everyone would expect to be in a released MMO, where not present. Like a search system in the market ward. And no boss fights (not instanced and not in the open world). From level 1 to level 50 and at the "endgame" the contents were Leves and Behest. Only 3 or 4 months after the release the first handfull bosses were added as Leve NMs.

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And don't tell me 1.0 wasn't like FFXI at all, because they said they used the same mindset when they created 1.0 so It's no my word it's the devs words on it

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It was not the "ffxi's mindset" that made 1.0 not work. It was the incompetence of the developers in charge of the project. So many things were wrong with this mess of a MMO, that one can wonder how this could come up from a firm that have a 10+ years old successful MMO for experience.

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I get that ppl like horizzontal progression, but it won't happen and quite frankly the market is not really built to support that anymore.

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Even WoW, that was well known for its vertical progression, did put some horizontale one with Legion. Plus, the developers from S.E. should take risks nonetheless because sometimes "the market" doesn't even know what it want.