Red Mages need some love

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

Sorry but i ratjer habe people not dying aswell. Learn the hard way without a rdm to carry ressed.

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I mean... what?

I think what you're trying to say is that if your party needs a RDM to raise to clear a fight you need to get better at the fight. As someone who has just started playing RDM in Savage I agree.

If you're looking at prog though... no? Having your party live longer during prog is literally the goal. See the mechs in order to figure out how to beat the mechs. Having someone who can raise both healers back to back is nothing but an advantage. No group walks into Savage, especially later tier Savage, and sweeps it in one pull. There is a lot of death with or without a RDM. All a RDM can do is reduce the number of times you're restarting because with a RDM in the party you don't have to wipe to double dead healers 100% of the time. That isn't "carrying ressed" it's called using utility.

Also at this point I'm tired enough for ad hominems - learn how to type, please.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I mean... what?:D

Also at this point I'm tired enough for ad hominems - learn how to type, please.

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Im on phone:) dont expect people to write 100% where this game has different people from other county aswell:)

It is true in what you are saying. I mean cmon. Rdm only became relevant bcuse of res for progs and bad non magical utility. Also alexander was doable without a rdm:) alexander was lot harder than delta and sigma 1-2 savage imo:) (actually most people iknow agrees).
Point is if u pug prog thats on you. Dont expect much even tho it might help.
I personally prefer dmg utility on prog IN STATIC so it can become easier to kill faster and learn the Pattern and timing of ur skill usage to allign. Cuse u evt will kill it anyways at the end of the day.
Dont come here and say what again:) no point tying to open my eyes when i alrdy know these stuff.

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

As a sch i reguse rdm in prog xD i just cant stand "im a rdm i can res". Sorry if my static adds rdm i leave xD

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The point of this post is how to make RDM more desirable for post-prog to prevent people like you to have any more reason to refuse it.

It's like you didn't even read the OP and went in here just to say how much you don't like playing with RDMs. :p

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Originally Posted by Sayori

I feel like Red Mages get the low end of the stick after progression ends. Now don't get me wrong, Red Mage is a great job to progress on due to the spam raises, but once progression ends and you have everything on farm, is there really any point to taking a red mage?

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Well I personally hate pet classes, and I don't like dot classes, so right there makes SMN no fun for me. In regards to BLM, at least until you unlock all the crafting you need to socket more materia and farm enough materia to get max spell speed...RDM is just better mobility and thus a lot more fun to play then BLM.

Having gotten both to the 60 range my RDM just feels more powerful then my BLM, and less stressful to play. Frankly if any class really needs love in my opinon it's the BLM, as it's timer is just NOT fun to play around where RDM not only is stylish, versatile, but mobile. The only thing I feel it really lacks is the hard hitting melee that the three hit combo should be that you build towards.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Having gotten both to the 60 range my RDM just feels more powerful then my BLM, and less stressful to play. Frankly if any class really needs love in my opinon it's the BLM, as it's timer is just NOT fun to play around where RDM not only is stylish, versatile, but mobile. The only thing I feel it really lacks is the hard hitting melee that the three hit combo should be that you build towards.

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For a selfish DPS, BLM are in a good spot right now. RDM needs help because it's not as mobile as SMN, and doesn't do anywhere near as much damage as either SMN or BLM. Additionally, RDM might be versatile, but that versatility is completely undesirable and actively discouraged outside of prog. If you you look at it from an end game farm and speed run perspective, you have to take away the heals and take away the raise. Once you do that, RDM is just a subpar caster DPS class.

Also regarding BLM timers, managing it has become a lot easier and a lot less frustrating with many of the QoL changes given, such as a longer Firestarter proc and 8s Transpose. Back when Transpose was 12s, you could definitely argue that maintaining was frustrating as sometimes you would see issues with ping. Highlight BLM timers as a problem with the job now (when it isn't) just shows you prefer RDM for its ease, which is perfectly fine. But once again, actual job difficulty can't be considered outside of prog, since if you're in a farm situation you would be pretty comfortable with your job no matter how hard the job is.

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

Im on phone:) dont expect people to write 100% where this game has different people from other county aswell:)

It is true in what you are saying. I mean cmon. Rdm only became relevant bcuse of res for progs and bad non magical utility. Also alexander was doable without a rdm:) alexander was lot harder than delta and sigma 1-2 savage imo:) (actually most people iknow agrees).
Point is if u pug prog thats on you. Dont expect much even tho it might help.
I personally prefer dmg utility on prog IN STATIC so it can become easier to kill faster and learn the Pattern and timing of ur skill usage to allign. Cuse u evt will kill it anyways at the end of the day.
Dont come here and say what again:) no point tying to open my eyes when i alrdy know these stuff.

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I'm also on my phone. I still manage to type complete sentences that appear cohearent ;)

Your bias against RDMs is silly and pointless beyond personal preference especially as a healer - apart from raising RDMs have the easiest time Mana Shifting without dps loss and while they don't bring more pDPS than a BLM they do have more utility (since anything has more utility than BLM) since Embolden (while not amazing) is still better than nothing.

The funniest part is most RDMs, myself included, would absolutely love to stick Verraise on a CD in exchange for potency increases and/or some more rDPS-leaning utility. That's been like... a major topic throughout this thread and others.

You come off as needlessly prejudiced here, almost like you don't like RDMs just because they're RDMs. That's really shortsighted. Get better my dude.

Also... what?

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Originally Posted by Popotato

For a selfish DPS, BLM are in a good spot right now. RDM needs help because it's not as mobile as SMN, and doesn't do anywhere near as much damage as either SMN or BLM. Additionally, RDM might be versatile, but that versatility is completely undesirable and actively discouraged outside of prog. If you you look at it from an end game farm and speed run perspective, you have to take away the heals and take away the raise. Once you do that, RDM is just a subpar caster DPS class.

Also regarding BLM timers, managing it has become a lot easier and a lot less frustrating with many of the QoL changes given, such as a longer Firestarter proc and 8s Transpose. Back when Transpose was 12s, you could definitely argue that maintaining was frustrating as sometimes you would see issues with ping. Highlight BLM timers as a problem with the job now (when it isn't) just shows you prefer RDM for its ease, which is perfectly fine. But once again, actual job difficulty can't be considered outside of prog, since if you're in a farm situation you would be pretty comfortable with your job no matter how hard the job is.

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Fist off while the timers may be easier to manage, that doesn't make them fun to play with. Second, if anything goes sideways BLM has literally NO options to help it's team, it's as you say a "selfish class". While RDM does need some damage love, the fact that you can help keep things from going completely off the rails should someone screw up I imagine is more helpful even in a raid then a BLM where you can't even play it properly unless you satisfy a long list of 'requirements' to even get the most out of it. So yes, I would rather take versatility over a BLM's lackluster play-style and it's inherent lack of mobility in a game that demands so much. Even if the RDM is lacking, it is leagues better then anything the BLM has.

As I said before, the biggest thing I feel should be changed about the RDM is that it's melee attack should be in the 300 mark per stage, minimum. Make it more of a burst type DPS, which I feel would fit in with the duel-cast mechanic.

If a Red Mage is raising members multiple times in Savage chances are your team will not meet the dps check.
I agree with everyone here about changes that are needed for Rm. As it currently stands i had to go as Nin as we had too many Red Mages and the other 2 casters are now blm and smn.
Red Mage just does not bring value to Savage.

@ Johaandr, am i reading it correctly that you would want dmg over utility?
So SAM over say Ninja even though some Ninjas can do more damage + bring group utility?
That makes no sense, lol

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

Sorry but i ratjer habe people not dying aswell. Learn the hard way without a rdm to carry ressed.

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Fair, but that's not answering the question. You refuse to have a RDM in the group because they can raise. SMN can also raise, will you reject them in your parties too?

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Well I personally hate pet classes, and I don't like dot classes, so right there makes SMN no fun for me. In regards to BLM, at least until you unlock all the crafting you need to socket more materia and farm enough materia to get max spell speed...RDM is just better mobility and thus a lot more fun to play then BLM. Having gotten both to the 60 range my RDM just feels more powerful then my BLM, and less stressful to play.

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Aren't you the one who made the thread that you don't like BLM because of how it plays, despite how that's the intended playstyle and the BLM playerbase by and large likes it?

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Frankly if any class really needs love in my opinon it's the BLM, as it's timer is just NOT fun to play around where RDM not only is stylish, versatile, but mobile.

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And weak. Very, very weak. About as weak as BRD or NIN, actually. Anywhere from last place on DPS rankings to third from the bottom in the current tier's 90th percentile. And it lacks the damage support its peers have to justify this. As most of the people who posted in your thread answered, the timer is, for them, very fun to manage, and as somebody who dabbled with it a bit myself, I can see the appeal even if the job's archetype (nuke caster) isn't quite what I'm looking for (spellblade).

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The only thing I feel it really lacks is the hard hitting melee that the three hit combo should be that you build towards.

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That is one of the discussed ways of improving RDM's damage, yes.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Aren't you the one who made the thread that you don't like BLM because of how it plays, despite how that's the intended playstyle and the BLM playerbase by and large likes it?

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Really? because the polls I found (even if they were back in heavenward) show that...over half did NOT like the job. Furthermore, if it was such a good job why do you not run into it as much during raids? I tend to see more SMN and RDM then BLM...even more MCH then BLM. There are only three magic casters, so why is it that the BLM seems to be the least popular, and by a significant margin?