Some interesting numbers on 4.0 BLM

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

EDIT: though honestly it's not that important because it turns out the optimal solution ends up being something along the lines of "do 4.0 if you B4 in UI" which, well, you'd obviously do anyway. Also, the 3.X rotation people compare doesn't have two spells in UI (which it must). That's part of the implied premise that Foul will always magically end up there, which isn't really the case (especially for 3.X, you're bound to run out of Fouls).

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I understand that it is better to cast Foul in UI. As such I can see the merits of using 3.x rotation there so that you are not forced to use Foul in AF during 4.0 rotation or worse, lose the Foul stack. But the same thing is true for if you do too many 3.x rotations and/or don't get enough procs to extend 3.x rotation, and end up not being able to Foul in UI.

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Originally Posted by jamvng

I understand that it is better to cast Foul in UI. As such I can see the merits of using 3.x rotation there so that you are not forced to use Foul in AF during 4.0 rotation or worse, lose the Foul stack. But the same thing is true for if you do too many 3.x rotations and/or don't get enough procs to extend 3.x rotation, and end up not being able to Foul in UI.

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Yes, exactly. Sorry, this discussion ended up spreading between the two threads.
The idea will be, with the 60second Triple, that when you have triple you go 4.0 (since you'll get more AF leniency due to Triple making casts shorter and you getting enhanced mobility), and otherwise you do 3.X.
This means that whenever you'll have Foul up for UI, you 3.X, and then when you start catching up to the Foul clock, you go B4 into the 4.0 rotation, which you can line up with Triple to get rid of its disadvantages.
The ideal solution alternates between both rotations :)

Since this thread is all about numbers:
Has anyone found out the Spell Speed breakpoint for 4.0 yet?
In Hw it was 16/17, but I couldn't find anything on Sb stat weights yet.

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Originally Posted by AxiomPITCH

Admittedly I'm still experimenting with the changes, but so far the less I cast Blizz IV, the more damage I do.

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So much reading in this thread :eek:, but from what i've gathered - refreshing Blizz 4 in our rotations hinders our dps because it forces us to be in UI more than we have to be versus squeezing out more time in AF? Is there ever a time we want to be using Blizz 4 outside of our opener, even if the encounter allows for it? It just doesn't seem like it from what people are saying.

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Originally Posted by Kaalia_Stormborn

So much reading in this thread :eek:, but from what i've gathered - refreshing Blizz 4 in our rotations hinders our dps because it forces us to be in UI more than we have to be versus squeezing out more time in AF? Is there ever a time we want to be using Blizz 4 outside of our opener, even if the encounter allows for it? It just doesn't seem like it from what people are saying.

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I should just make a new thread.
ATM you can 5xF4 without using B4. This is an unconditional pps gain, and you do this "new 3.X rotation" whenever possible.
The only reason not to is if you get a slow tick going into UI and then don't get a refund on the T3 mana. If this happens, B4 afterwards.
You end up swapping between both rotations based on mana tick timing.

From a concept of class progression, it just doesn't make sense that any alteration of a lvl 60 3.0 rotation should be viable over what the intended lvl 70 4.0 rotation is meant to be. Ok, I guess UI is great for AOE since it lets you flare twice, but outside of that, where are the gains? You can't sell me on it's viability for the mere aspect of allowing me to get an extra tick of mana. I was hoping for something more when the changes to BLM were announced it regards to UI to phase us into our 4.0 rotation without looking back at 3.0. I think they could have fixed this by buffing our Fire IV to pre-nerf levels while under improved UI. That gives us a reason to want that Blizz 4 before going into AF.

Ideally we'd get some kind of cumulative bonus per-time-we-spend-Umbral-Hearts, so that not only is it worthwhile to use B4-F3-F4-F4-F4 on single targets, but it's worthwhile to use B4-F3-F2-F2-Flare on grouped targets.

It doesn't even have to be a straight buff. For instance, what if Foul had a 60s charge timer, but each time you spent one or more umbral hearts you automatically gained 10s of charge?

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

I should just make a new thread.

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I was going to recommend that! Between this thread and BLM Sanctuary, there is a lot of information spread all over the place. It would be great to have a thread dedicated to "Current BLM Rotations"
BTW thanks Galvuu and others that have spent so much time figuring out all of the maths, and sharing your work with us. I really appreciate it!

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Originally Posted by Bahd_Monkey

I was going to recommend that! Between this thread and BLM Sanctuary, there is a lot of information spread all over the place. It would be great to have a thread dedicated to "Current BLM Rotations"
BTW thanks Galvuu and others that have spent so much time figuring out all of the maths, and sharing your work with us. I really appreciate it!

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Agreed, big thanks on all the effort you put into this, both the theory and the testing. I don't think anyone is still caring for that Blm guide, so might be time to do a new one.

Btw, about the Spell Speed issue I brought up earlier, a friend and I tested it out, Gcd decreases by 0.02 every 133 points invested in Spell Speed. You have to spend either 66 or 67 (alternating between increases) points to get an increase of 0.01.

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

Agreed, big thanks on all the effort you put into this, both the theory and the testing. I don't think anyone is still caring for that Blm guide, so might be time to do a new one.

Btw, about the Spell Speed issue I brought up earlier, a friend and I tested it out, Gcd decreases by 0.02 every 133 points invested in Spell Speed. You have to spend either 66 or 67 (alternating between increases) points to get an increase of 0.01.

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I think I did say it was 66 a while back. Dervy's folk have crunched most steps for us in most stats.
I have this huge table that I need to format. Next week I'll put up a new thread, tied up with work :(
Not sure I'm the indicated person for this kind of job, but it's nice to collect all data in one place and I don't mind doing it x)