Stop rewarding tanks/healers! We all put in the same effort.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I agree that tank duties are overrated in dungeons (raids are a different matter though) b/c there aren't many mob abilities one has to account for in a "tanky" way. Tanking is basically DPSing with more aggro of the moves.

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If that were true, there would be as many tank as there are DPS. Thing is playing a tank is much more stressful than playing a DPS, especially in dungeons (and not so much in raid). Because as a tank it is you who is giving the tempo in a dungeon (group (deciding when to pull and how much, and handling huge packs if the team wants you to make big pulls).

As a DPS, you only have to follow, execute your single target/AOE rotation, without thinking too much.

That aside, I don't really care about tanks rewards or whatever, but I think if SE wanted to fix the issue then they d just do stuff like in wow and would give DPS some way to tank (with specializationq or whatever). Also, if you feel like there is a need for a' reward 'for you to play then you should ask yourself if you're trully having fun playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

If that were true, there would be as many tank as there are DPS. Thing is playing a tank is much more stressful than playing a DPS, especially in dungeons (and not so much in raid). Because as a tank it is you who is giving the tempo in a dungeon (group (deciding when to pull and how much, and handling huge packs if the team wants you to make big pulls).

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Maybe it's because I am a MMO veteran of 10 years but I have nearly all classes at 60, leveled primarily through dungeons. Tanking is NOT harder than DPSing. Tanking dungeons is braindead easy in this game.

Only Exception are a handful of pre 50 dungeons like Aurum Vale, where you cannot facepull the entire room. All other dungeons are essentially "pull everything up to the next door" if you healer isn't incompetent.
I love healing but I also play tanks. I really dislike playing DPS in FF-XIV because classes are convoluted and not fun to play.

The reason people don't play tanks is the stigma. They THINK that it is hard to do, when in reality I would argue that tanking is the easiest role of the 3. Esp if you are familiar with the dungeon already.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Also, if you feel like there is a need for a' reward 'for you to play then you should ask yourself if you're trully having fun playing the game.

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Agreed.
Though sometimes you have the option of all 3 roles while feeling indifferent at the moment and the reward nudges you into a needed role.
THAT is the purpose. Not to convert non tank players into tanks "by force".

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Originally Posted by ZemusM

I have been playing a Tank for MANY years. You are the party leader regardless of what they want or think, you drive the party forward. Now my time being a tank in XIV personally has been nothing short of great, I can't recall the last time I ran into a verbally abusive player to be honest, It's been well over a year.

If they think you are slow, that is NOT YOUR PROBLEM, you go at the pace you are comfortable with and clear the content.

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Respectfully disagree. It is your job as a tank to pull as fluently and speedily as the group allows.
If DPS are crap -> slow down
If the healer can't cope or your gear is underlevel -> slow down
Else -> pull as fast and as hard as mana allows.

I HATE tanks that pulls small packs of trivial mobs and stutter step their way through the dungeon. Esp the stutter stepping, where you always ask "is he pulling now or isn't he?!"

As for abusive players: when I am tanking, players do not have time to write into chats. They are busy mashing buttons. :D

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Also, if you feel like there is a need for a' reward 'for you to play then you should ask yourself if you're trully having fun playing the game.

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I can answer that immediately. I'm not having fun playing right now and feeling a lack of motivation of even getting PLD to 70. I feel like I'm spoiled by TERA, because I got a lot more fun and engagement out of tanking there. Of course there are reasons that I quit, such as there being no real end game. But I had to constantly pay attention to bosses, and it was fun taking 0 damage while also maximizing DPS to an extent while holding aggro (you can stack aggro mods or damage mods on your gear).

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Originally Posted by Granyala

The reason people don't play tanks is the stigma. They THINK that it is hard to do, when in reality I would argue that tanking is the easiest role of the 3. Esp if you are familiar with the dungeon already.

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I would say, mechanically tanks are very very easy, to the point it's boring. However, socially it can be stressful depending on the people you get partied up with (like abusive players).

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Originally Posted by Granyala

The reason people don't play tanks is the stigma. They THINK that it is hard to do, when in reality I would argue that tanking is the easiest role of the 3. Esp if you are familiar with the dungeon already.

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I disagree, but for a different reason - from my experience, tanks in this game aren't so much fighting the dungeon, they're usually fighting the screwups from the other players in the party. It's why I don't tank - my skill set makes me much more valuable as a healer or a Bard, where I can literally carry bad parties as either role, but a good tank cannot salvage a bad party no matter how hard they try.

And that, my friends, is the true reason why there's a low population of tanks in DF.

I'm actually tempted to suggest a non-conventional solution to the DPS queue problems = actually implement some kind of official parser, so that DPS players might be encouraged to switch if it turns out they're doing less damage than the tanks and healers, or improve themselves to rectify that issue. Right now, there's no in-game measurement to accurately see how well the DPS are doing in comparison to healing and tanking, besides the speed at which mobs are dying, but that could easily be one of the DPS being sub-par while the other happens to be godlike, or the tank and healer are putting in massive work. Because if there's one thing that doesn't get recognized at all, it's good DPS.

I don't know about other server right now , but in Elemental data center (Tonberry) the queue is getting nice and steady as a DPS , also this happen :

https://scontent-sin6-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f3&oe=59CB9B40

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

I would say, mechanically tanks are very very easy, to the point it's boring. However, socially it can be stressful depending on the people you get partied up with (like abusive players).

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True, same goes for healers. DPS players are generally shielded because
a) no individual statistics exist to judge performance (when I f*** up as a healer or tank people KNOW b/c usually someone dies)
b) hardly any responsibility in the first place due to encounter design. (raids excluded, seen plenty of special DPS "jobs" in my WoW raiding career)

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I disagree, but for a different reason - from my experience, tanks in this game aren't so much fighting the dungeon, they're usually fighting the screwups from the other players in the party. It's why I don't tank - my skill set makes me much more valuable as a healer or a Bard, where I can literally carry bad parties as either role, but a good tank cannot salvage a bad party no matter how hard they try.

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And that it precisely why I love playing a healer, because contrary to WoWs neutered healing design, in FF I actually can compensate player fails.

The actual solution may lay in allowing more DPS enter thr same dungeon, i.e. raising the number of 4-man instances to 5 in order to squeeze in another DPS. The numbers can then be adjusted accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I heal AND I DPS. I essentially play 2 roles at once and a miscalculation can end in a dead player.
Sorry, but I'd say that I do more than a DPS that just tunnel visions through the dungeon.
PS: DPS are rewarded too if they are in demand. I have seen it happen on off hours but it's rare.

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The same could be said of RDM's who spam dualcasted raise in dungeons. Adventurer in Need Bonus for DPS is so rare that I have only ever seen it maybe 5 or 6 times since I started ARR.
The point I was trying to make is more about them giving all these benefits but only to a select group of players. And I will hammer that point over and over again. If you give it to one, then you need to make it AS EQUALLY FAIR to all. The cracked cluster or w/e should just be a randomized drop to anyone who participated.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

The same could be said of RDM's who spam dualcasted raise in dungeons. Adventurer in Need Bonus for DPS is so rare that I have only ever seen it maybe 5 or 6 times since I started ARR.
The point I was trying to make is more about them giving all these benefits but only to a select group of players. And I will hammer that point over and over again. If you give it to one, then you need to make it AS EQUALLY FAIR to all. The cracked cluster or w/e should just be a randomized drop to anyone who participated.

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Or you could just roll a tank/heal for the adventurer in need bonus.

That bonus is there all the time, it's just not available for DPS most of the time because there are too many people rolling DPS. Help the queue out, be an adventurer in need, and you'll get the reward. It's not like you have to be on a different character(like other games), the cluster you earn while being a tank can be used for your DPS progress.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

The point I was trying to make is more about them giving all these benefits but only to a select group of players. And I will hammer that point over and over again. If you give it to one, then you need to make it AS EQUALLY FAIR to all. The cracked cluster or w/e should just be a randomized drop to anyone who participated.

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Roulette does not give rewards to all players equally because the amount of players playing each role isn't equal, which is why queue times are long.
The tomes you get = your participation reward. The bonus is a bribe.