The main point of this quote is that if you encounter a player who isn't playing particularly well, rather than getting upset at them, you should try your best to help carry them ("cover what that person lacks"). This is good advice in df, because people often resent being told that they're doing something wrong. Buckle down and be a better player on their behalf. Push dps for the both of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarstenS
What this quote doesn't suggest, however, is that all playstyles are equivalently optimal. Intrinsically, it takes a higher level of player skill to push your dps while keeping everyone alive than it does to just heal and do nothing else. You can play however you like, but you shouldn't harbour any illusions about your level of competence. That was the OP's point, if I understood it correctly.
As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.
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09-08-2016, 10:58 PMLyth
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09-08-2016, 11:12 PMKarstenSIt doesn't. But it does say "players should be able to play as they like" and the others should life with it, insteat of "getting grumpy".Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
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09-08-2016, 11:24 PMXiXiQ
I suspect you'd see a lot more healers doing DPS in between healing if cleric stance wasn't a clunky pain in the behind. Base their offensive skills off the mind stat and be done with it.
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09-09-2016, 12:22 AMRawrzHavent had a problem with it in forever (since I was new.) I'd like to keep my +10% damage boost and only real "mechanic" please. <3Quote:
Originally Posted by XiXiQ
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09-09-2016, 01:36 AMNekotee
Whm and ast have regen effect which is similar to the fairy
So no need to actively heal either
Sch only get bonus if CritAdlo
Where they can dps without really worry or take time to set up fairy -
09-09-2016, 04:13 AMFunkyBunchYou've taken the quote completely out of context. He was talking specifically about the penchant for people to mandate "optimal" rotations, not purposely only playing half your job.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarstenS
The two things are not even remotely related. We're not talking about what's the best rotation for healers here. We're talking about clicking one or two buttons a few times a dungeon.
You're equating what Yoshi said about top-level optimal play with the bare minimum expectations from Hall of the Novice. -
09-09-2016, 04:45 AMSidra
I just got back after a 6 month break, and of sort of amazed this conversation is still happening. I don't really think there is any sane point to be made for healers not dpsing. The game favors it so much - from getting cleric stance so early to 1/3 of healer skills being dps related to the lack of outgoing damage that allows it to the obvious benefit it provides the team. Anyone saying healers shouldn't be dpsing (with the obvious asterisk assuming a base competency of party members and some knowledge of the encounter) is simply stating how they wish things were, and not how they are in this game.
But where intelligent minds seem to disagree more is how to deal with the inadequacy. From my perspective, a healer not dpsing is no different than an underperforming dps or a tank who sticks in just once stance. Am I going to be mean to them or kick them from a dungeon? Absolutely not - if I was to kick an underperformer from a dungeon I'd never finish a dungeon. And being mean to real people because of their digital performance just isn't in my realm of what's right to do. Sucking in a video game isn't exactly a bad thing that deserves ire like beating your wife or being a deadbeat dad. It really doesn't matter.
On the other hand, while I wouldn't be kicking strangers from dungeons over it, they would not last on my raid team very long. A raid team unites and meets for a common purpose, to clear challenging content together. I think a reasonable expectation is that everyone is going to do everything in their power to be the best teammate they can be and help the group as much as they can. A 0 dps healer either just isn't trying to be the best teammate they can be, which is an unacceptable mindset, or is simply not skilled enough to be raiding in this game. I'd probably throw in some subtle to not so subtle hints they should be helping add dps - even suggest some times in the fight where it's feasible - but if they keep those bagels up it's time to nicely let them know we are going to have to replace them. -
09-09-2016, 05:24 AMZojhaWell, the wording he chose was "basic rotations". So...1-2-3 basic aggro rotation. Which we shouldn't be grumpy about if a tank fails at it and mobs are all over the place for the entire run.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBunch
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09-09-2016, 06:37 AMFunkyBunchHe didn't choose the words "basic rotations". The translator did. And while the translator did a pretty good paraphrase, he missed a lot of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zojha
He didn't actually use the words "basic" or "rotation" in that section of the interview. The closest thing he said was "the players who who don't have skill shouldn't stop from clearing" (and that's still a paraphrase but it's closer).
The only time Yoshi talks about rotations was in the 3.x to 4.0 comparison about the the 3.X ones are too complicated. -
09-09-2016, 06:40 AMbardaboo
Here is the answer... why did they give healers the abilities to dps? So they can dps. If you want to heal a dungeon and not dps I'll leave you alone if the following conditions are being met: things are dying quickly (good damage dealers in the party.) The tank is suuper squishy and you don't have time to. You stand quietly in the corner not jumping around like a fucking ass hat. You aren't a sch with a fairy keeping everyone up for you. And if you are brand new.