Why is "It's something to do" apparently a valid defense?

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Originally Posted by BossEpoch

I don't see much of a point in providing constructive feedback because I highly doubt any of the dev team or staff are looking at these topics at all, and if they are none of the feedback will be accepted. Realistically, the relic will be nerfed. It'll just be in 3.45 or something when there are two more even worse steps.

If I were to suggest something, it would just to be literally half all of the item/tome requirements.

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Yes, but as far as I'm aware, you're not one of the people making comments to people who enjoy it. I respect the fact you're having intelligent argument instead of just spouting "white knight" :P

People aren't being called white knights because they enjoy doing the quest, but because of their attempts to belittle or dismiss genuine criticisms of the content that come up.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

People aren't being called white knights because they enjoy doing the quest, but because of their attempts to belittle or dismiss genuine criticisms of the content that come up.

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Some people are counteracting these arguments validly and are still being called a white knight. Or better yet, merely said they enjoy the content and have been criticised.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Some people are counteracting these arguments validly and are still being called a white knight. Or better yet, merely said they enjoy the content and have been criticised.

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How so? The only counterarguments I've seen in defence of SE's unashamed copy/pasting of gamecode without any creativity has been:

- SE can't create new stuff without money (as if they're not getting sub and cash shop money, also that didn't stop them doing stuff like LoV that I'm sure wasn't heavily demanded in comparison to the relic)

- People are just upset they can't get the relic immediately and should just unsub (the common, weak argument when people's complaint isn't about it being a grind, but the way it was implemented)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Creating content takes time, and this game has far more content than FFXI in the same span of years. Dynamis was created in 2005, three years after initial launch. ARR was launched...3 years ago, we have Diadem.
And you can't count 1.0 since ARR was created back from scratch.

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I don't think it's fair to compare the Diadem to Dynamis. I wish the Diadem was like Dynamis.

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Originally Posted by Sardonia

So if they would have created 10 new trials that are just as difficult as A4S that would need to be done for the relic, would you all be happy? I can just assume the boards would be this is too hard, need to nerf, etc, etc.

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That is an extremely poor comparison, and you know it. Are you saying that back when we were upgrading our relic to zenith, that Titan HM was comparable to T5? I truly hope not, because as far as difficulty goes, there was absolutely no comparison. If you recall, most complaints about Titan HM were not due to his difficulty, but because of latency issues. Quite frankly, back then the instance servers were BAD. That, combined with a fight that introduced perma-death mechanics, and you have a recipe for disaster. Seriously though, don't compare the top-tier raid content to primal content; there's just no comparison.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

I don't think it's fair to compare the Diadem to Dynamis. I wish the Diadem was like Dynamis.

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While I wish it was like dynamis too, i do think it is a fair comparison because I think it is exactly what SE was going after with Diadem except it was a fail.. I think people have been asking for something like Dynamis and this was SE attempt at it but just with more recycled content like hunts. What was Dynamis really? It was farming, farming gear and currency to upgrade that gear. That part SE got right, the part they got wrong is Dynamis was fun and challenging and new at the time. It also got wrong the part that the gear you got was epic. FFXIV suffers from no gear is epic. The gear was worth working for and spending the time one and was good for a long time not outdated with the next patch.

I do not think people dont want grind, I think they want grind that is worth doing or grind that is different from the last grind. If the relic was truly a much better weapon people would not care so much. If Diadem gave truly epic gear people wouldn't care as much how bad it is. Yea some people are never happy but this was epic fail, it is not a few people on the message boards un happy.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

How so? The only counterarguments I've seen in defence of SE's unashamed copy/pasting of gamecode without any creativity has been:

- SE can't create new stuff without money (as if they're not getting sub and cash shop money, also that didn't stop them doing stuff like LoV that I'm sure wasn't heavily demanded in comparison to the relic)

- People are just upset they can't get the relic immediately and should just unsub (the common, weak argument when people's complaint isn't about it being a grind, but the way it was implemented)

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Or people just enjoy it and don't want it changing? I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. Why can't we simply enjoy something? It's a counter argument in itself. Some of us like it, some of us don't.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Or people just enjoy it and don't want it changing? I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. Why can't we simply enjoy something? It's a counter argument in itself. Some of us like it, some of us don't.

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Those people dont have to worry now do they because the old content will be there even if they bring something new and if you want to run WP 1000 more times you certainly can.

The real question is why are you afraid of something new or new content that you dont want it?

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Originally Posted by BossEpoch

Words.

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The people who use this argument, (such as myself even on occasion), aren't necessarily using it as an argument saying "the game is better than ever and this content adds so much that it should draw other players in". Said people are using it as an argument for two reasons. 1) Many people have been using the exact opposite argument of "there's nothing to do" as the reason why they leave the game these past few months, and 2) The people who use this argument are the ones who love the game as a whole and spending time with their friends on it, so they're just happy to have more incentive to run content and have a goal to work towards. They're not bored with the game entirely like you seem to imply, they're just out of personal goals, which this relic gives them.....