The disapointment that is Alexander

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Originally Posted by HReincarnate

The excitement of seeing each arena & boss and progressing the story was gone within the 3rd week of HW for basically everyone & instead those raiders only have gear to look forward to which greatly devalues the raiding experience. People may still want to do savage because it's the hardest thing in the game atm, and they want gear- but surely it would be a much richer experience if it could be experienced as coil was!

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Matches pretty much all my points, but another thing: By adding it two to three weeks before savage, everyone who wanted to do savage has already grinded the shit out of all the turns to prepare. People became sick of Alex 1-4 before Savage came out. And now the only motiivation is "gear, but slightly better (if even in some cases)". Dealt a big blow to motivation.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Matches pretty much all my points, but another thing: By adding it two to three weeks before savage, everyone who wanted to do savage has already grinded the shit out of all the turns to prepare. People became sick of Alex 1-4 before Savage came out. And now the only motiivation is "gear, but slightly better (if even in some cases)". Dealt a big blow to motivation.

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The only motivation for you, perhaps. Most people who do serious progression do it for the fun of it. The gear is just a nice perk that helps future clears be a little quicker.

And seriously? A couple weeks of grinding is enough to completely turn you off of the raid? Clearly you weren't that interested in savage to begin with if that's the case.

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

The only motivation for you, perhaps. Most people who do serious progression do it for the fun of it. The gear is just a nice perk that helps future clears be a little quicker.

And seriously? A couple weeks of grinding is enough to completely turn you off of the raid? Clearly you weren't that interested in savage to begin with if that's the case.

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You put it perfectly, gear is a bonus...the fun of learning hard fights and learning to push your job is the real reason for raiding.

And if a couple of weeks of farming is nothing compared to weeks of wiping chasing the same kill.

Only thing I agree on is how tight the space is. For once, I want to see more wide open dungeon raids

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

The only motivation for you, perhaps. Most people who do serious progression do it for the fun of it. The gear is just a nice perk that helps future clears be a little quicker.

And seriously? A couple weeks of grinding is enough to completely turn you off of the raid? Clearly you weren't that interested in savage to begin with if that's the case.

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Aren't you making the same generalizations as I am? From forum posts before, most people did serious progression in 2.0 to learn the Coil story line. Most people I ran through the coils cared not for the fights, but the story. Heck, my driving force for Coil was the story, I could care less about gear (except High Allagan, that set was amazingly awesome). Also don't make assumptions about me, you don't know anything. I cleared all the coils pre-HW, and half of 2nd/3rd coils pre-echo. I was damn hyped for Alexander Savage. But with the story already explained to me, the lack of WOW factor that Coil had, and the sameyness of A1, the motivation isn't there. A1 is just normal mode with a few twists. Resin bombs now drop a pool, yay just put it offside. 2 more adds... meh, it's the same mechanic. The only interesting thing I find as a dps is the "walk as one" mechanic for the launch/drop.

I hear A2 is more or less the same, and that A3/A4 changes. Maybe my opinion of it will change in those places, but currently I'm not dragging people by their heels into the raid like I was in 2.0.

Of course, those who couldn't clear or couldn't get a clear through the coils complained they couldn't see the story so SE gave normal mode. I get why they did it, but there goes my prime motivation, oh well. I'm still doing it cause hey, it's a challenge like you said, but I wondering how fast burn out will happen.

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

You put it perfectly, gear is a bonus...the fun of learning hard fights and learning to push your job is the real reason for raiding.

And if a couple of weeks of farming is nothing compared to weeks of wiping chasing the same kill.

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I'd take months (which was actually the case in 2nd) to years of wipes to find out what was gonna happen next in the Coil. Everything in Savage has already been revealed though. Even the gear looks the same minus a visual effect.

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

Only thing I agree on is how tight the space is. For once, I want to see more wide open dungeon raids

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I don't really get this one, A1 & 2 have massive areas, I mean I wish we had more area like T1 but Alexander is a lot bigger than Final Coil was.

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Originally Posted by Magis

I'd take months (which was actually the case in 2nd) to years of wipes to find out what was gonna happen next in the Coil. Everything in Savage has already been revealed though. Even the gear looks the same minus a visual effect.

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I'm not going to argue with you about the story, I think it's kind of lacklustre at the moment, but BCoB was kind of bland too, it wasn't until the end of SCoB that things got interesting. I'll be kind of pissed if the whole raid stays so Goblin orientated as they feel like comic relief. You seem to only be interested in the story and it looks like you did most of Coil with Echo, so you got your story mode. But for people who enjoy challenging fights, Savage is doing ok so far, A3 is harder than anything I came across in Coil bar say T9.

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Originally Posted by Magis

I'd take months (which was actually the case in 2nd) to years of wipes to find out what was gonna happen next in the Coil. Everything in Savage has already been revealed though. Even the gear looks the same minus a visual effect.

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If people are taking years wiping in..anything in this game it may be time to try a different approach, Or a new game entirely. Preferably one that requires very little thinking.

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Originally Posted by HReincarnate

I think what we want is a fight that doesn't have as high a dps check but has more mechanics that are more difficult to execute.

Meanwhile I don't know what the hate against "artificial difficulty" is - seen it used & described in another thread and it seemed like a fitting description. The reason it's 'artificial' is because it's not a natural evolution of the normal mode - the mechanics don't become much harder and most of the difficulty comes instead from high numbers, which imo is a poor & 'artificial' way of adding difficulty.

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Oh you mean one where everyone kvetches until you can brute force it because "f mechanics"?

Because that's what happens.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

Normal/Heroic release immediately. Mythic is one week later.

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Yeah forgot the wing split up.

And no, why they did it was the same reason it has shit rewards... Mythic raiders whined they *had* to do it for set bonuses.

No, they really didn\\'t. When I did heroic tot and seige I didn\\'t touch lfr. At all. Still got progression.

World firsts do whatever they have to, like it or not, and accept it because of the nature of the beast. It\\'s often unorthodox how they gear(see melded 150 accessories).

Unfortunately everyone else seems to think that\\'s how it has to be done.

Btw, as someone that didn't do Coil when it was current, and still hasn't done final Coil(we ran out of time), I wasn't impressed by the zones themselves.

Fights were interesting(still have to do mechanics), but that was it.

I was more impressed by the atmosphere of Ulduar than Coil.