Yoshi P / Dev Team: FAVOR System - Please Fix This BROKEN System

Does that mean they should be denounced for giving up? Are they too casual for "end game" crafting? They play to have fun and they have done much of the previous preHW crafting, but the current red scrip system made them stop because they don't enjoy it. This is why I have issue with the current system and I don't think it was SEs intent to make a system people don't enjoy.

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Originally Posted by seorin

You mean sort of like Lucis? :)

What would you say Lucis and T13 gear were useful for? ...and how is current 2 star any different?

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Lucis was not nerfed, and it was useful up until 58, if you did not have it you needed to upgrade your MH prior to those levels unless you bought/had someone else craft your leve items usually. T13 and upgraded ironworks gear was also usable up until 55.

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Originally Posted by seorin

This worked great in 2.0, so I don't see the problem. Even SE said that 2.0 worked well, but later patches ended up too hardcore. When they announced the scrip system, it was supposed to be an additional option to what we already had, not a replacement. I think both systems can and should exist side by side: an uncapped but expensive/grindy version for hardcores, and a cheaper, easier, and slower (but otherwise equivalent) version for more casual players.

My primary issues with the current system are the expense to get red scrip in the first place and the gating of crafting materials behind a weekly limited currency. I didn't enjoy gambling my limited ehcatl sealants to RNG crafts and I enjoy it even less when favors add RNG to the RNG.

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In 2.0 they mostly retuned 1.0 gear and added the mats to philosophy tomes. In 1.0 those mats were bought from vendors. Later in the 2.x patches old tome items got moved into dungeons, which people running those dungeons for gear complained about constantly on these forums, and the next tier of items was from tomes again (myth) and were selling for 100-500k for quite some time. Once again, these forums were riddled with complaints, but those with gil had no issues as they could buy all they needed. This allowed those with gil to gain a huge advantage on those without. These items were also used for DoW/DoM gear, and not crafting/gathering gear. We had il55 AF for a very long time. At no point did we require tome items to craft our own gear. The only "gate" we had on our gear later was MCD and sealants, which people complained about as well.

SE decided they did not want those with gil to obtain such a large headstart this time around. They created gear that did not require melds and those that did. But this time around SE is not gating us with tomes, DoW/M running dungeons, or desynthesis. All we rely on is crafting for our scrips for gear and gatherers (or self-gathering) for scrips/favor items to craft meldable gear. They deliberately limited the amount of these items on the market at this time to prevent those with gil from saturating the market before those gearing up with scrips could get to the same level. They also withheld the actual recips in the cases of the super rich buying up the limited materials there are available.

This all seems quite temporary (as they have stated 3.1 is bringing new FC nodes, new recipes, etc.). That gives everyone plently of time to get their stuff without feeling rushed and spending tons of gil. In fact, you are actually forced to!

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Originally Posted by seorin

The benefits are being first and any associated benefits that go with it, such as selling items for higher prices or simply prestige. That's all the reward ever is. If you get exclusive access to something besides, that's an extra bonus. It's not a guaranteed reward that anyone owes you for slogging through something you didn't like.

Why did so many people grind out zetas or lucis, even knowing the expansion would replace all of it before we even hit 60? Nothing in 2.55 required either. The gear itself is the carrot. Everything else is just a bonus.

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Because you did not need to upgrade your MH until at least 55 in HW as stated above. That is 5 levels and half the HW content to make use of those items. When Zeta came out it was relevant and useful, some people used Lucis to help with their MB2 even.

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Originally Posted by MeridaQ

Does that mean they should be denounced for giving up? Are they too casual for "end game" crafting? They play to have fun and they have done much of the previous preHW crafting, but the current red scrip system made them stop because they don't enjoy it. This is why I have issue with the current system and I don't think it was SEs intent to make a system people don't enjoy.

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I don't think I've said anything of that nature. I was happy they lowered the length of favors and hope it encourages more to participate. Just because I have less issues than some with the new system, doesn't mean I have anything against casual crafting as you put it. But whether it's favors or Supras or Lucis', some will decide it's not worth their time. It doesn't mean there shouldn't be hard to obtain goals for crafters. Whether you like or dislike the way they implemented this one is unique to every individual.

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Originally Posted by Thrustie

I don't think I've said anything of that nature. I was happy they lowered the length of favors and hope it encourages more to participate. Just because I have less issues than some with the new system, doesn't mean I have anything against casual crafting as you put it. But whether it's favors or Supras or Lucis', some will decide it's not worth their time. It doesn't mean there shouldn't be hard to obtain goals for crafters. Whether you like or dislike the way they implemented this one is unique to every individual.

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Hello Thrustie, sorry if it seemed like I was targeting you with my statements. I was not, I was simply making a statement that the whole reason why everyone crafts is because they enjoy it and I know many that don't enjoy the current system. These forums have gotten people too polarized and that just because someone vents/complains either pro or con we shouldn't jump on them. That is why I said my rhetorical questions.

I'm sorry! I saw the post as following 2 of mine so I made a somewhat stupid assumption that you were referring to me.

That's a fair statement and I agree, people are going to feel different ways about any system that is implemented but everyone's opinions should be respected. Kinda like the various stages of 2.x relic chain, this can be a very polarizing subject when people are so invested in it.

No problem! :D Also SE give us our T5 materia please!!! ;-;

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Originally Posted by Rath

Lucis was not nerfed, and it was useful up until 58

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I agree a gear reset isn't a 'nerf', but that's getting bogged down in semantics. Either way it means taking less time to reach the same point as those who did it earlier. It's far easier to get a couple 50-55 mainhands than a lucis, and since both will be replaced at 60 it's functionally the same as a nerf. It would be a direct nerf if we could craft our own lucis cheaply at 55.

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Originally Posted by Rath

When Zeta came out it was relevant and useful, some people used Lucis to help with their MB2 even.

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Two star gear is useful in the exact same way. You can use it to make the rest of your two star gear or to more easily make level 60 stuff. Zeta and Lucis weren't required for anything, they just made existing stuff a little easier. Exactly like two star. People with two star gear have already received just as much reward as Zeta and Lucis users, but some act like SE owes them more. That's the part I disagree with.

Regarding the rest, instead of speculating what SE wanted let's go right to the source (bolding mine):

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

The intention behind implementing the scrips system was that advanced materia melding was the only method by which players could increase their stats for Disciples of the Land and Hand classes, and we reached a point where a large amount of items was required to increase stats by even a small amount. For players who wish to race to the top as quickly as possible, they will be able to use materia as they have until now, but we’ll also have an alternative route for players to gear up by gradually saving up scrips. All players will need to use scrips at some point, so there will be a difference in speed for players who spend large amounts of gil on materia, but we're implementing this system with the goal of providing a new route for leveling Disciples of the Land and Hand classes.

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It sounds more to me like they wanted to preserve the ability for those with gil to power to the top quickly. They just wanted to add a second option for more casual players. I think they failed at both. Hardcore/wealthy players only get a marginal speed increase, materials are scarce to the point that they're barely being sold at all, and casual players feel more alienated than ever.

Zeta and Lucis were a significantly lower time investment. I probably finished my Zeta relic step and 4 Lucis' in less time than I spent doing one week of favors. I hope there's more to it than just easier 2 star crafting or both favor crafters and red token crafters are going to be pretty salty about their time/Gil investment. I think there's more to this hence why they gated the progression so heavily but I guess we'll see come 3.1.

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Originally Posted by Thrustie

You cherry picked the one statement in my entire post that wasn't an argument. The rest of the post detailed why I disagreed with you but, hey, one up for selective reading.

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Not only that, she has quoted me and changed my words around to make it seem like I have said something I haven't. Can't even have a conversation with her without her getting personal.

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Originally Posted by seorin

It sounds more to me like they wanted to preserve the ability for those with gil to power to the top quickly. They just wanted to add a second option for more casual players. I think they failed at both. Hardcore/wealthy players only get a marginal speed increase, materials are scarce to the point that they're barely being sold at all, and casual players feel more alienated than ever.

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Well I've already seen multiple crafters with full HQ sets, and I've seen other crafters going the 180 route. I don't possibly see how they failed at both. How have they failed at both?

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Originally Posted by seorin

Two star gear is useful in the exact same way. You can use it to make the rest of your two star gear or to more easily make level 60 stuff. Zeta and Lucis weren't required for anything, they just made existing stuff a little easier. Exactly like two star. People with two star gear have already received just as much reward as Zeta and Lucis users, but some act like SE owes them more. That's the part I disagree with.

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But Lucis was considered "catch up" gear and it's unfair to compare an item that came out at the tail end of ARR to new crafting gear that just came out at the beginning of an expansion. Do you really not think this new gear will be required to craft the next level of 3 star crafts? I think it would be absurd to think otherwise and it's why many people, myself included, are trying to grind out as much of the new gear as possible before that time comes.