Fix Sumnmoner

Yay! Another summoner rework thread cause I haven't read enough of these in the past year and a half.

For those that want to summon "the full blown primals" please just stop trying. We don't need to make everyone else's life a living hell so that you can do the the big shiny attack every 30 seconds. The last thing I want is for a massive primal standing in the middle of every fight I'm in. Sometimes surveying the battle is difficult enough without have to look around Titan's rocky ass all the time. Then you have the flashy attacks. The most annoying thing about Black Mages and Summoners currently is the LB3 which makes it so that you can't see anything for a few critical seconds. I'd rather not have to put up with this on a nearly constant basis. Sure I could change my settings so that I can't see anyone else's attacks but why should I have to lower the quality of my game so that you can explode the world with your summon on a constant basis. The counter argument which I've seen spring up from this is "well it worked in XI", yes and the battles in XI were incredibly different with a much slower pacing. It was possible in XI, it's not possible here.

As for redesigning the egis, that's a somewhat valid argument but if they're going to shrink them so small that all the details become muddled... why not just have the abstract versions we have now?

You don't want to cast DoTs, right? Okay... then do you want to be an underwhelming black mage or an underwhelming white mage with a pet cause that's how most summoner classes have played in the series.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Out of curiosity how does Scholar do dots better? If they get stuck healing they aren't using DoTs.

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Because Akiza is willing to say anything, and i mean anything, no matter how dumb to construct his narrative that Summoner should be completely changed from the ground up because he doesn't like how the class plays. He's so blindly focused on this goal of throwing the baby out with the bath water, that I am convinced that he isn't even trolling anymore. He legitimately thinks this stuff.

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As for redesigning the egis, that's a somewhat valid argument but if they're going to shrink them so small that all the details become muddled... why not just have the abstract versions we have now?

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Superna/Chirada Sized Avatars I believe would be just fine, small enough to not block much view and large enough to keep much of the details intact. I don't think most want full sized nor do I support that. Ramuh's beard alone is massive if he were OG sized. As much as I would like to see this tho, it's doubtful considering the lore, at least for now.

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You don't want to cast DoTs, right? Okay... then do you want to be an underwhelming black mage or an underwhelming white mage with a pet cause that's how most summoner classes have played in the series.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but most SMNs in FF stuck purely to there job sake of Summoning, be that for a single burst of damage/buff, or it temp took over the field for the caster/Party, and you would command it as such. I won't attest to having played or researched everything, but XI seemed to be the only one to really have the underwhelming blm/whm sub. The summoner job itself in XI had fairly respectable burst damage, assuming you had blood pact timers shaved down, and a plethora of utility options from its summons.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Out of curiosity how does Scholar do dots better? If they get stuck healing they aren't using DoTs.

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Because Scholar can Dot and Bane enemies while healing. Only thing Summoner can do is provide is underwhelming DPS

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Originally Posted by FreeLancer4

Ramuh's beard alone is massive if he were OG sized. As much as I would like to see this tho, it's doubtful considering the lore, at least for now.

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.. now I want a Ramuh summon that is just a tiny floating head and a beard reaching to the ground (like a lightning bolt?)...

Regarding everything else (throwing my voice in) - I like smn as is. I don't care if it doesn't match previous games because this ISN'T those games. I picked a class to play based on how it plays, not on the name. And I think a DoT class fits its role in the world. THM channels virtually uncontrolled aether into pure destructive forms. ACN channels carefully controlled aether into predictable forms; either disrupting a target's aetheric field (DoTs) or pets. If anything I would expect them to have more crowd control spells.

These threads are constant because summons in the FF games have been about bringing in a ringer on your side. They're often cutscene attacks, but they're also about having a buddy that's way stronger than you or any of your group mates coming in for a bit and messing things up, they're the stars of the show for as long as they're on the stage. The egis are helpful, but they're not showstoppers. I bet a lot of the aethetics and feel of the summoner could be greatly improved by redoing their limit breaks to make them summon something big and have it fight for a bit. If you're reductionist enough, that's just a dot anyway, and the summoners are the dot specialists.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Because Scholar can Dot and Bane enemies while healing. Only thing Summoner can do is provide is underwhelming DPS

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There you go folks, if you needed any more proof that this guy is full of crap.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Why rework when they can add new job-specific abilities to further define its Summoner image?

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Overall, needs more abilities drawn from the primal fights themselves, whether through job skills or the egi themselves.

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Originally Posted by Razard

There you go folks, if you needed any more proof that this guy is full of crap.

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I mean he's right about SCH dots doing more damage, but i mean doting while healling doenst mean anything

its cleric stance giving 10% more all the time