Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

I don't think there's any point getting worked up over a dummy parse. They are all almost identical to each other, the only difference being gear and crits - the only thing they show is if you know the rotation or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleigh

Notice the BRD did 340 DPS with no deaths. That's probably a cheesed add phase where he went AFK for the whole add phase or something.

515 on DRG is really good if you had a 12~ minute run or less and everyone does very well in add phase. Gets less impressive as the fight gets longer and people slack in the add phase but will always be decent.

---

We've been going into last phase with both Kurama and I being at 480 DPS. I'd say that estimation is very spot on. Mind you, that's with a BLM aoeing, as well as we're at around 8:xx at that point, but still.

nevar enuff data

http://i.imgur.com/w1KLT2y.png

So, Determination is indeed affected by your Attack Power. If it weren't the case, then both of the charts would scale exactly the same, right? That's actually one thing I was going to test, but looks like you've already done it. I'm genuinely thinking Determination is a flat out damage modifier like how the Japanese do it.

There's just absolutely no reason for there to be WD + (WD*STR) + STR + (WD*DTR) + (STR*DTR) + DTR * Coefficient.

A million times simpler for it to be WD + (WD*STR) + STR * DTR * Coefficient, or something like that at least.

Also Sunny, are you going to do a similar test, but with WD?

EDIT:

X Weapon Damage = Base WD with a Broken Weapon. Currently testing to see whether it's 1 or 0.

http://puu.sh/gRTxv/63bf8fb336.png

I was trying to devise a formula for STR and DET at fixed WD (and specifically, the only WD that matters for BiS), and while it does appear it should be a*STR*DET + b*STR + c*DET + C due to how linear DET and STR seem to be in isolation, actually trying to solve for that has given me some iffy results (notice how those lines don't intersect near the same point numbers-wise even though it looks like they should eyeball-wise). Probably just needs tons more data points, so no WD testing for now. And really, doubling all this effort for a single different WD? aaaagggg.

In a practical sense, though, consider DET for DRG at i130 to be more like .45 than .33, but I don't actually know what. Calculating stat weights from actual damage seems reasonable if you don't mind that there may be significant error from a small number of samples.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odowla

Its impressive because it actually takes a /really/ good run, or being cheesed. The best run I've had is a 500, with a death, and I have the highest NA run on t10 and had the highest on t11 for a week or so. T13 varies so much that it pisses me off.

---

How much did you do in t10? And what class? I pulled 611(monk) with being picked for last charge. And my highest t13 was 552(monk), but couple of deaths. Highest without deaths is 521.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

snip
http://puu.sh/gRTxv/63bf8fb336.png

---

In normal people language, what does it means exactly? I can't understand anything @_@ Please translate ._.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakmatic

How much did you do in t10? And what class? I pulled 611(monk) with being picked for last charge. And my highest t13 was 552(monk), but couple of deaths. Highest without deaths is 521.

---

What duration for 552? And while this isn't a negative thing, were you fed adds to keep up GL3?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleigh

What duration for 552? And while this isn't a negative thing, were you fed adds to keep up GL3?

---

Not sure at work, ill look when I get home. Around 12 mins if I remember correctly. And I wish I got adds to keep gl3, even with deaths it melts lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spayd

In normal people language, what does it means exactly? I can't understand anything @_@ Please translate ._.

---

It's the influence Strength has on Damage, at 0 Weapon Damage. It assumes that with 0 Weapon Damage and 0 Strength, we'll do a base of 4.7483 damage. I believe the Japanese use 4.95, so it's rather close. So to calculate damage with 0 Weapon Damage, it'll be 0.0846*STR + 4.7483. I'm basically going through all of Valks and JP work with new datapoints as they never went above 500 STR for any of their tests.

EDIT: I cracked the 677 DPS parse. Dat Selene.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

EDIT: I cracked the 677 DPS parse. Dat Selene.

---

I wonder how much I can do with Selene then.

nice dps yeah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleigh

What duration for 552? And while this isn't a negative thing, were you fed adds to keep up GL3?

---

12:16 was the kill time. Forgot to look lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakmatic

12:16 was the kill time. Forgot to look lol

---

I would like to have a look at that parse if it's possible :)

Any clarity on the stat weights for BIS vs the Raid/Poetics STR stats?

I have two sets of gear I am playing with... A set with all crafted or 130 poetics and a set of 130 poetcis and WOD drops. The set made up with more crafted gear, which has a much higher stat weight as all are pentamelds, feels like it doesn't hit as hard as my other set of 130 poetics, WOD gear, and a lower total stat weight.

I would probably need a parse to be sure. But any clarity on the stat weight versus STR values would be appreciated.

My current research indicates that the more STR you pick up, the more DET is worth. I don't trust my own numbers that much because I don't have enough of them to tell whether it's my data that's flawed or that the underlying formula is more complicated than I'm hoping it is, but think of it more like DET ~= .46 STR at 664 STR, and DET ~= .43 STR at 634 STR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakmatic

12:16 was the kill time. Forgot to look lol

---

Sounds fishy to me, or it's merged.

There's no way in hell you cleared at 12:16 with deaths, unless you mean you basically solo'd the add phase..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

EDIT: I cracked the 677 DPS parse. Dat Selene.

---

Which 677 DPS? ;o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

My current research indicates that the more STR you pick up, the more DET is worth. I don't trust my own numbers that much because I don't have enough of them to tell whether it's my data that's flawed or that the underlying formula is more complicated than I'm hoping it is, but think of it more like DET ~= .46 STR at 664 STR, and DET ~= .43 STR at 634 STR.

---

Thank you. I am trying to figure out what gear and melds (if crafted) I should be aiming for. Seems like, in general terms, I should go for the BIS Augmented Ironworks gear first and use crafted gear in the other slots until I get Dreadwyrm pieces.

I read a lot of builds with the crafted boots over the augmented ironworks ones. I am wondering why as those boots have such good stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odowla

Sounds fishy to me, or it's merged.

There's no way in hell you cleared at 12:16 with deaths, unless you mean you basically solo'd the add phase..

---

Agreed, I did 556 while helping some friends with their t13 clear, I had a Ninja and Selene till just before last phase. Since their DPS was really slow I had more than enough time to DPS even with 2 earthshakers.
Setup I was using: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/Q6XN
http://puu.sh/gUpYg/fe3d5856eb.png

Any build that you have seen outside of either this Thread or on the "How To Train Your Dragoon" google doc, really shouldn't be considered.

Here ya go. http://i.imgur.com/knue3qm.png I know you are a good dps Odowla I've seen the dnt spread sheet, but trust me other good dps exist other than there. If I put my numbers on that sheet I would be on top of both your turn 13 and turn 12 with only you beating me in t10 and t11 with almost 1 minute kill time faster. Please dont doubt me :P Just ask for the parse the next time.

There's definitely something wrong with that parse.
The damage numbers don't add up - missing 40k~ish worth of damage. The storm doesn't register a death? Only 2 sin deaths (should be 3). 1 pain death (should be 2). 1 blood death (should be 2).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by enil

There's definitely something wrong with that parse.
The damage numbers don't add up - missing 40k~ish worth of damage. The storm doesn't register a death? Only 2 sin deaths (should be 3). 1 pain death (should be 2). 1 blood death (should be 2).

---

Please look out to the deaths column. ( I looked back not sure why the storm doesnt register a death ) I can assure you its unmerged(set to 45 secs) and a kill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Please look out to the deaths column. They die more than 1 time.

---

I keep looking and I keep seeing the same thing...
Just modified it to make it more obvious.
http://i.imgur.com/z9JD8v7.png

http://i.imgur.com/g6NAvYW.png Dont know why it doesnt have them, i dug deeper for another one here. Now quit nit picking my shit. I never said it was an amazing parse, someone just doubted it so I linked it

Its not that I don't want to believe you, I'm just in disbelief cause there's a lot of weird shit. Like, 3,398 damage on LB, and thats it? You must've either: sat on Lb3 the whole last phase or like.. idk.. tank Lb3'd an akhmorn or something. It's really weird..

Well I dont LB so idk. I just know that my ninja lbed right as the boss was dying may have not even counted.

I'm getting dejavu from the last few posts lol

Something's still seems a little off here to me.

Your parse seems to be missing about 30k~ damage from Bahamut. Every kill parse I've seen has damage taken by Bahamut Prime at about 1,37x,xxx, while yours is 1,344,xxx
You two parses you linked are actually the same fight, except for slight differences - all dps have slightly more crits in the fight with the missing deaths (more crits in a fight with less data?) , but somehow the crit rate (%) is actually lower. DPS and HPS numbers stay exactly the same while damage variance is under <10 for players and all identical for mobs.

I don't know what is going on but they don't look like standard parses.

Well I don't know what else to tell you. Study it all night if you need too. Everything in my ACT is standard except for the 45 second timer. That parse was imported from history I didnt have it handy. The only thing I can think of is that LB 3 was used at the very end of the encounter, may have not picked it up, which is about 30k damage. That may also explain why Limit Break only did 3k damage.

Do you guys do anything in particular to keep DPS high in the second half of the rotation? I find that in the first 20-odd seconds I parse well over 700 on dummies, and then it slowly falls to about 540 over the next 30 seconds until I can pop a buffed Full Thrust again when the rotation restarts.

I hope we get more off-GCD stuff in 3.0, there's not enough happening inbetween moves for a significant part of the rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DumpTruck

Thank you. I am trying to figure out what gear and melds (if crafted) I should be aiming for. Seems like, in general terms, I should go for the BIS Augmented Ironworks gear first and use crafted gear in the other slots until I get Dreadwyrm pieces.

---

My personal philosophy on BiS has always been to ignore BiS and shun crafted gear (I'm poor). I always try to purchase the tomestone gear that'll give me the most DPS per tome, using whatever other gear I have. This isn't the best way to go at all (especially when 2.4 dropped, because High Allagan and Astrum stuff had way too much skill speed), but at least it's gil-friendly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DumpTruck

I read a lot of builds with the crafted boots over the augmented ironworks ones. I am wondering why as those boots have such good stats.

---

Accuracy requirements is why we don't just pick the gear piece that does the most damage for the slot and call it a day; puzzling conclusions can be achieved! That said, I wouldn't trust those at the moment. The playerbase has been working off faulty stat weights for many moons now; what I just told you is experimentation I just did. So, nobody's had a chance to test/refute it nor revise what BiS would look like with crafted gear. Maybe it kicks pentamelds down a notch. Maybe up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seekified

Do you guys do anything in particular to keep DPS high in the second half of the rotation? I find that in the first 20-odd seconds I parse well over 700 on dummies, and then it slowly falls to about 540 over the next 30 seconds until I can pop a buffed Full Thrust again when the rotation restarts.

---

This is the famed DRG burst. We never catch up to it again. Other jobs have burst like this too, but not quite this far above the norm for 20 seconds.

And DRG cooldowns used to not be aligned so well. They changed it because our DPS was too low. Now everything is really aligned, but it is a little more boring too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

This is the famed DRG burst. We never catch up to it again. Other jobs have burst like this too, but not quite this far above the norm for 20 seconds.

And DRG cooldowns used to not be aligned so well. They changed it because our DPS was too low. Now everything is really aligned, but it is a little more boring too.

---

Indeed, I was just wondering if there's a magic trick to these crazy parses I see other than doing a good job with adds and maniacally popping off-GCD moves when they're up. ;-) I do like the reduced cooldown on Spineshatter Dive, but I wish they'd do a similar change on DFD. 180 seconds is quite long for what for many fights is just a Full Thrust with movement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seekified

I hope we get more off-GCD stuff in 3.0, there's not enough happening inbetween moves for a significant part of the rotation.

---

I genuinely don't know how you've come to this conclusion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I genuinely don't know how you've come to this conclusion.

---

Heh, I just like having stuff to do all the time. Having played DRG for a very long time now, I honestly get bored when I have to wait a full 2.5 seconds to do my next thing. It feels slow compared to the first 20 seconds when I'm popping everything I've got, is all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by enil

snip.

---

Yea, this. Could you provide the left ACT window of that encounter ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Well I don't know what else to tell you. Study it all night if you need too. Everything in my ACT is standard except for the 45 second timer. That parse was imported from history I didnt have it handy. The only thing I can think of is that LB 3 was used at the very end of the encounter, may have not picked it up, which is about 30k damage. That may also explain why Limit Break only did 3k damage.

---

I can believe your number, especially because no one else is inflated in the slightest so I doubt it's a merged parse (45s is longer than any downtime possible). That said it does seem very high without being fed adds to attack and sustain GL3 ... what exactly do you do in add phase? I would imagine any outlier number from other MNKs who are extremely competent would lie there rather than some super crazy good CD management or somehow a rotation difference when attacking Bahamut itself, even if assuming no Earthshakers.

Pop perfect balance on first set of gusts spam rock breaker, PB then comes up soon as bahamuat drops in the last phase. Thats about the only thing I can think of that differs for other players. I do that to ensure I have GL 3 going into last phase. Other than that its just your basic stuff. Also thank you for knowing that it is a kill and unmerged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Yea, this. Could you provide the left ACT window of that encounter ?

---

If you cant look at it and tell its unmerged and a 1 shot then thats too bad. Im not going continue posting pics so I can be talked shit too. I didnt post that parse for any other reason other than someone said I doubt you did that.