The Monk Temple Reborn

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Originally Posted by Craiger

The guy from the stream(again), have played with the job, and he specifically went throught MNK video and said that it was Tornado Kick followed by Forbidden Chakra... and then went on about the AoE, and that it's not in the video. He even tried to paint the attack in paint for us to get an idea. It won't look anything like that attack on the video

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Right thanks for that, I missed the stream itself and just caught the document at the end of what people have learned. So looks like that entire animation is tornado kick then, its long but if we are not missing anything then your maths pretty much checks out and monks are gonna be spending the expansion building stacks for some high burst.

So at what point does Tornado Kick end and at what point does Forbidden Chakra start? If Tornado Kick includes that back flip ball attack. Then it looks like its gonna cost a reset of your GCD bar, its animation is longer than every single GCD attack for monks, even Demolish it seems.

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Originally Posted by Ossom

So at what point does Tornado Kick end and at what point does Forbidden Chakra start? If Tornado Kick includes that back flip ball attack. Then it looks like its gonna cost a reset of your GCD bar, its animation is longer than every single GCD attack for monks, even Demolish it seems.

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Its the 1:20 mark till 1:22, so yeah the kick after demolish ending with the ball attack, the forbidden chakra comes after that, it looks like it's just under the 2 second mark in terms of animation duration.

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Originally Posted by Ossom

Thats a complete dps lost and I would never do this in progression. This is what I have fracture cross classed for.

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I think you're taking what some of us have said to the extreme. I'm not advocating using Chakra all the time to push timers, but pointing out that there are times when you can use it. Some of your posts are coming off a bit alarmist for something that we don't even have all the info on let alone play time for. I don't think any of us think that we're going to be using Forbidden Chakra with great frequency. We don't even know for a fact if there's a cooldown on it or not. However, if you are using Fracture every time you need to push a single GCD TP can easily and in some fights to now will be a problem. Also think about the damage loss your bard will incur if you are starving yourself if you are the only one that needs it. So if we are talking about progression then forcing a 20% damage loss on your bard outweighs the loss using an occasional Chakra.

We also don't know what the fights are even going to be like in the expansion so that's even more reason to hold off on calling something useless or near useless. Normally I agree with vast majority of what you post, but in this instance I think a step back until we can actually see it and experience it is needed before calling something a waste. A little optimism or skepticism is fine, but you keep trying to speak on fact when we don't have all the facts yet. In it's final form it may not even be a full GCD similarly to what they did with Mudras. Currently it looks to be a full GCD, and I do not believe a GCD as short as a Mudra would be fair, however, again we do not have the facts.

Presenting some numbers is one thing, but some of what you are saying is coming off just a bit aggressive.

@Ricdeau

I'm sorry if you feel that I am coming off aggressively. I don't want you to feel that way.

I was merely responding to what you said in a previous comment about standing in front of a boss and not dpsing to hold for a buff.

Specifically this point: "So many times I'm about to have Internal Release or Blood for Blood up (1-2 seconds), but I need to form progress and I miss getting the buff applied to a DOT. Throwing a Charka stack here and there for those slight delays will be good when you also consider the payoff when you use the Forbidden Chakra move."

If that was aggressive to you, I apologize that you feel it was aggressive just because I wholly disagree with you, but I meant every word of it. Now I definitely agree with your other point when you have to move away from attacking range it does serve a purpose.

Unfortunately just because I am upset with what I have seen from the information on monk and disagree with some of your statements doesn't mean I am being aggressive. See here you are calling me out, and I am not calling you aggressive. You see, we can disagree without trying to paint people in a bad light.

I'm fine with you disagreeing with me. I didn't mean your tone towards me is aggressive, but your distaste for our new abilities that we don't have all the facts on is coming off as aggressive. Some of it is sounding a bit like the Summoners that are never satisfied with anything. I'd just like us to be a bit objective here, and not prejudge something we haven't been able to touch nor something that we even know is finalized so harshly. Now once we get it in its final form and it is lackluster by all means tear it apart.

I think it's less aggressive, and more of a constantly negative speculation. "never this, never that" kind of deal

Ultimately, until June 19th hits, or until we see patch notes with specifics just before from E3, we don't actually know realtime applications of any of these skills honestly.

At best the only thing we can say for sure is we will want to start a fight having 5 chakra stacks, ready to use forbidden chakra with GL3 + buffs + potion.

The best way to regain chakra stacks to be able to actually utilize the chakra skills? Outside of knowing that we can do that during downtime (which is shit for us anyway, so thanks for having a filler i guess)

We know we have a GL dump, which we still have to figure out best applications for (I mean clearly you'll have to know when disconnects are about to happen, or specific phase pushes. 400-500 potency attacks with GL3 + buffs is no joke)
We know we have a new stack that takes a GCD to add upon
We know we have a way to cycle forms on GCD

Speculation is nice, but again, until June 19th we have no practical application or idea if anything will change.

I think it's a little unfair to decide there is no use for something until we actively have the chance to play with it.

I do also understand your concerns, because if I can punch the boss, I'd rather keep punching the boss than waste GCDs to build up a separate set of stacks (5 stacks to use it, thats 5 gcd's to not use a damage skill to build up to a higher potency damage).

Don't worry though, monk definitely got the coolest refresher/breath of fresh air, hopefully a couple of neat ways to continue combat. Should be fun, let's look forward to it!

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Originally Posted by ryuuken

Don't worry though, monk definitely got the coolest refresher/breath of fresh air, hopefully a couple of neat ways to continue combat. Should be fun, let's look forward to it!

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I agree with this.. Though I've been war and drg main for the last few months, the new monk skills sound way more awesome than the new war/drg stuff lol. And it makes me want to switch D:

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I agree with this.. Though I've been war and drg main for the last few months, the new monk skills sound way more awesome than the new war/drg stuff lol. And it makes me want to switch D:

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I really like the new abilities for MNK, but at the same time, I could have done with another core rotation ability...

In certain fights, like T10 or T11 for example, you would probably never use the Forbidden Chakra(5 Chakra stack attack)... Except for one, since you get 5 stacks before the fight.

Tornado Kick might be used in those fights if it's oGCD... but I'd rather have an addition to your combos, and leave Tornado Kick to just be used before the boss jumps.

But shouldn't complain, overall it's good additions.

Hmm? The boss goes invulnerable on both of those fights so you could use, though you're not in too much jeopardy of losing your stacks really. I really like playing monk, but I haven't got the gear drops to play it in fcob at all. Unfortunately I accumulated too much NIN stuff, DW daggers and all, and I hate NIN lol, my monk still stuck in mostly 110 gear. ( only DW drop I have for monk is chest piece.. yay! >.> )