SE Banning players with large amounts of gil?

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Originally Posted by Ryuni

I have a feeling that their reason to remove all your money is that they noticed you profited almost all of it from gil buyers. That's the only reasonable thing I can think of if your alt got to keep everything.

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Most of my sales were in the 2k-10k region, for the first 5mil, then my sales varied from 2k-70k.

I was selling on the market faster than I could craft the items for the most part.

So for your theory to be correct, 99% of the server buying low-mid value items would have to be gil buyers.

So these Devs let RMTs run rampant and then they punish legitimate players.

They slacked on RMT bans, now they slacked on an investigation. They slack on AOE issues and the list goes on.

Just a bunch of slackers. Takes one to know one.

By the looks of the situation there were never any human looking into our accounts ever. Everything done was automated.

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Originally Posted by Jacotto

My story is extremely similar, although I made more like 5.5 before I started crafting 2-star gear. I made at least 2M on electrum gear in the first week, selling full sets for 90k each - RMT didn't even exist yet, there weren't any city shouts... I can't understand how that gil is removed, and why the folks who spent millions of gil on gear I made for them are still unbanned and still wearing the gear they essentially stole from me.

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We don't even know if the 2 star buyers were gil buyers, or if we were just suspended because of the gil we had. Maybe those who report to have 10mil+ on no legacy servers kept it in the retainers?

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Originally Posted by Esmond

By the looks of the situation there were never any human looking into our accounts ever. Everything done was automated.

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Exactly my point, I *want* a GM to investiagte my account, but it's impossible to contact one, email/phone/chat support don't want to know. Mods on here don't care either.

You know what? I'm incredibly angry about this and I wasn't even affected.

What the hell, Square Enix - what the hell? You have shoutspamming RMT bots running amok for hours/days on end, teleporting bots having the time of their lives just gathering copious amounts of items, and yet you not only wrongfully suspend the innocent but then punish them for a crime of which they are innocent with no proper investigation?

This is one of the most abominable things I've seen in my time playing games. This is completely and utterly unacceptable. You're trying to recreate A Realm Reborn's image? It is going to be tarnished by your actions here - you are treating innocent paying customers worse than the RMT infestations!

You need to resolve this, and quickly - nobody is going to want to play a game where everything you work for can be removed from you for arbitrary reasons.

I am very angry, and everyone else reading this thread should be too - whether you are affected or not. Because in a way, we're all affected. Collateral damage in the "war" against the RMT is not acceptable.

I thought NEXON was bad, but at this rate i don't know man. Im about to say i had more fun times on a NEXON game... and that is like saying you had fun at the DMV instead of playing FFXIV >.> ;

Well Im just not going to resub. A big part of a MMO for me besides being fun. Is how well a companies customers relations are and its clear is god awful. I wasn't effected by this situation but clearly if anything every happens in the future to my account its clear I will just be screwed. The systematic screwing of so many people is disgusting. That and if they had GM's they easily could have them bouncing from town to town for each server is perma banning the RMT people in the towns. Clearly thats to challenging of a task let alone investigating people with gil and doing anything remotely close to anything that looks correct.

They did said anyone that bought or got their item bought from RMT got their gil removed from that, so even if they divided your gold by 100, it could of been some one that bought from an RMT, then bought you items, which result the same, as if an RMT bought your items.

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Originally Posted by RubenSnizzle

They did said anyone that bought or got their item bought from RMT got their gil removed from that, so even if they divided your gold by 100, it could of been some one that bought from an RMT, then bought you items, which result the same, as if an RMT bought your items.

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In such a case, the sale should be nullified: that means the item in question should be given back to their original seller, as if nothing ever happened. There is no justification for depriving a legit player from both the product of a sale AND the object of the sale. It's either one or the other, that is, if this game's world is to be fair.

Cross-posted from the other thread for visibility.

Here's what leaves a really sour taste in my mouth:

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Originally Posted by Square-Enix

Items and GIL obtained illegally through 3rd party tools or RMT activities can affect the game’s economic stability, and can disrupt the game play balance. Some 3rd party programs contain viruses and spyware, which can be harmful to other players unbeknownst to the 3rd party program user. This can lead to a leak of a user’s personal data, character deletion, or other unfortunate circumstances. We have a zero tolerance policy for RMT.

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It has been basically signed, sealed and delivered that we're all guilty; even if we're not. You guys can argue our innocence until you're blue in the face, but WE (and the people who know us) know we're innocent. The problem truly is the statement above. If Square-Enix has a ZERO TOLERANCE policy towards RMT we ALL SHOULD HAVE BEEN BANNED PERMANENTLY! We shouldn't have had our gil divided by 100, we shouldn't be off suspension, WE SHOULD BE GONE.

Square-Enix still wants our subscription money, but they're going to do everything in their power to make our gameplay experience a poor one. This really is the issue at hand. We've paid for our games, now they want our subscription dollars. I implore you, if you were hit by this blanket banwave (and yes, that's exactly what it was) to NOT SUBSCRIBE. Vote with your wallets and show that being a terrible company will not be tolerated.

Direct actions of this arbitrary decision for me include:
* Cancelling of service accounts on both my and and my girlfriends accounts.
* Several friends will not be renewing their memberships past this first month.
* Cancelled pre-orders for Final Fantasy X/X-2 remake and Lightning Returns
* Cancelled pre-order for launch bundle of Playstation 4 from Amazon (I was literally only going to use it as a FFXIV backup anyways)
* I, and a number of my real life friends, will not be purchasing another Square-Enix product EVER.

I hope that those of you who have the power in your hands to make such financial decisions think about what you're supporting.

We have no power to do anything ingame. Our gil is gone; deleted. If we contact Square-Enix "technical" Support we'll get another canned response about how they have no power to change anything and it's all "the people overseas". We can, however, make this a focal point for our future purchasing decisions.

Those of you who didn't get swept up in this: enjoy the game; seriously. But I hope that EACH AND EVERY PERSON who was dragnetted into this will not support Square-Enix ever again. You and I and everyone else deserve more than this from a company.

that can't be right... wheb u sell potash in the market at 54k and can easily sell it making 1 mill is cake so that's not right to think just because u have lots of money makes u a bad person .. were saving for housing in my fc. I'm jot saying I have butt loads of gil which I don't but I can see how easy it is to get to 1 mil

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Originally Posted by Ryuni

I have a feeling that their reason to remove all your money is that they noticed you profited almost all of it from gil buyers. That's the only reasonable thing I can think of if your alt got to keep everything.

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As the first 46+ miner on my server (Cactuar) I was able to sell DS ores at 13k a pop, gold ores and gold sang at 9k a pop, astral rocks at 3k, grade 3 matter at 4k.

Each night for about 5 days I made 400-500k only from DS ores, selling them 3 at a time on the market since people were buying them for their quests rather than crafting. I easily sold to 500-1000 different players during those days minus some friends that were high end crafter to whom I sold my stuff way cheaper. Were all of those players cheaters? The server would be pretty empty by now

That way, I was able to reach 6-7 millions before I got some competition on the rare mining mats. I was also the first miner on server to unlock HQ rare mats which sold for a high price too for a while.

Now I can't even make that money back because there's so many miners that DS ores sells for 300g, gold ore is at 300g too, gold sand 50g and grade 3 matter is 150g. I spent countless of hours to level my miner to 50.

I know a lot of crafters on the server that can vouch I did it legit because they were looking at the money I made from the rare mats on the market history. I know a lot of people find it hard to believe that some players had so much money but all server first gatherer had a lot, even the first 46+ botanist on my server had almost double the money I made because he didn't have competition on the market for longer than me. People seriously need to stop saying we're all cheaters and realise that there's way too many people affected by this.

If they were really removing tainted gils after a real investigation, why is everyone getting the gils divided by 100 instead of different numbers for everyone?

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Originally Posted by Tarubaby

Those of you who didn't get swept up in this: enjoy the game; seriously. But I hope that EACH AND EVERY PERSON who was dragnetted into this will not support Square-Enix ever again. You and I and everyone else deserve more than this from a company.

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There's no way I'll subscribe to this game. They screwed 1.0 and screwed 2.0 too

What purpose is whining without you guys doing any action going to serve? If you are indeed innocent and a gaming company does this to you DONT PLAY THEIR GAMES EVERY AGAIN.... There needs to be a stop to this kind of crap and if you just blindly accept like a slave dog that you are and continue to play their games they will CONTINUE to do this... Stop being such pansies and speak with your wallets and get the fanboi out of your blood FFS

Guess I'm done with this, I have been not selling anything at all to avoid being caught up in this mess, but who knows when they;ll decide to pull something similar.

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Originally Posted by PhDSigleaf

What purpose is whining without you guys doing any action going to serve? If you are indeed innocent and a gaming company does this to you DONT PLAY THEIR GAMES EVERY AGAIN.... There needs to be a stop to this kind of crap and if you just blindly accept like a slave dog that you are and continue to play their games they will CONTINUE to do this... Stop being such pansies and speak with your wallets and get the fanboi out of your blood FFS

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Trust me I won't stay and even players that didn't get caught in this mess should be worried too, nothing will prevent them from nuking legit players again next month

Just went on a crafting spree buying mats for shark oil... Oh crap I still got 8,000 gil! Im so screwed lol Unsubbing felt good. So... Whens Star Citizen coming out lol

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Originally Posted by KevinC

Trust me I won't stay and even players that didn't get caught in this mess should be worried too, nothing will prevent them from nuking legit players again next month

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Indeed, they're about to alienate a lot of people with this issue.

I'm personally very worried and wary of even touching anything gil-related in this game ─selling tomestone items, let alone gathering or crafting products. Since I can't know the provenance of other's gils, and since selling to a cheater (RMT customer) is handled as if it were cheating in and out of itself (the legit seller being sanctioned in terms of play days during the so-called "investigation", and later on stripped off in-game possessions when deemed innocent, i.e. deprived of most of his gils without ever getting back the sold items), the only logical course is to stay away from the economy and not buy/sell anything from/to other players.

If we believe all witness reports in this thread, it seems that even people owning less that 200k, who made their money with chest coins or even quests, seem to have been affected by this. Therefore I'm not even sure that playing is safe at the moment.

This is all quite problematic for a MMORPG if one can't use the in-game currency for fear of being illegitimately sanctioned by the very publisher itself. Should the witnesses/victims in the thread speak the truth, never have I seen such a mind-numbingly unprofessional and detrimental handling of RMT matters. At this rate, the cure is worse than the disease.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

If we believe all witness reports in this thread, it seems that even people owning less that 200k, who made their money with chest coins or even quests, seem to have been affected by this. Therefore I'm not even sure that playing is safe at the moment.

This is all quite problematic for a MMORPG if one can't use the in-game currency for fear of being illegitimately sanctioned by the very publisher itself. Should the witnesses/victims in the thread speak the truth, never have I seen such a poor handling of RMT matters.

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Just look here and on reddit how many people are disgusted by this. If there was only 1 player angry about this I would understand if no one would believe him but now there's A LOT of players speaking out. I hope everyone realize how bad SE screwed and I would be very scared to be hit myself if I have a lot of gils. Hell I made more than 100k from the quests with NPCs, do the NPCs buy gils too now?

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Originally Posted by KevinC

Just look here and on reddit how many people are disgusted by this. If there was only 1 player angry about this I would understand if no one would believe him but now there's A LOT of players speaking out. I hope everyone realize how bad SE screwed and I would be very scared to be hit myself if I have a lot of gils. Hell I made more than 100k from the quests with NPCs, do the NPCs buy gils too now?

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(I just use the conditional wording as a habit from work I guess, since I can't verify the facts claimed, not being affected myself as we speak; but personally I'm indeed 99% convinced these claims are true for the most part.)

Most likely, SE did fail big time at handling this matter.

As I said, their cure is much worse than the disease they intended to heal: the "disease" (RMT) is an annoyance for us players; the "cure" (illegitimate sanctions to legit players) is a total game-breaker, actually one of the worst possibly imaginable: they nullify legit players efforts, which is disgusting if not followed by excuses and a compensation; and they lose their customers' trust ─all in a single move. This is the kind of mistake that ends up in bad buzz campaigns; a rightful indignation if you ask me. SE better step up their communication and rules enforcement methodology sooner rather than later, and compensate the victims as soon as possible.

We need answers, we need transparency in how these matters are handled, we need guarantees that sanctions are not based on some random factors totally outside of our control as legit players.

Think about how many players were tempted to buy gil in the first few weeks . . . .

7$ per mil
29$ per 10M

for the price of the game you could buy 10M worth of gil, probably have enough run dungeons till your fingers bled . . .

at those prices I am absolutely positive many bought, and bought a few times thinking it was safe. then that gil circulated and now we are here . . .

I am also pretty sure there were many players who had no interaction with rmt, not mentioning hacked accounts. Deep down i do feel/think/personal opinion many many many took advantage of the cheap gil and bought quite a bit.

End of the day in all of this there was going to be collatoral damage, and it is players choice roll with the punch or not sub to the game.

For me I rolled with the punch after my account was hacked and cleaned out, and I am still playing with having re earned 200k or the 900 taken from me. All of that gil re earned is new server gil also :P go craft leve's

Spee! Whats up buddy?

All this talk of sanctioning crafters and gathers make me afraid to invest time in this game. SE really bungled this re-release. I don't think I will be playing much anymore if they are taking 99% of what crafters/gathers earned legitimately.

If you never broke any rules, you should NEVER have negative actions taken against your account.


Real classy SE

I won't be paying for my sub if this isn't dealt with, not affected myself but it's not acceptable.

According to the CS rep I talked to they are powerless and your only real shot is to open an ingame ticket to the GM's. The question is how long it will take before I have to resub..on the fence about resubbing just to find out they can't do anything either. This whole scenario has just been handled so poorly..it's bad enough being wrongfully banned for 7 days but to not even get an actual investigation? Also it was such an automated process to the point that my retainer's still had their gil so people who may have avoided the 8mil barrier had retainer gil stocked up as to avoid having coin directly on your character.

Edit: They replied ingame with talk to the phone people. Really? So go back and forth endlessly until what?

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Originally Posted by Jeneti

I won't be paying for my sub if this isn't dealt with, not affected myself but it's not acceptable.

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Right, because listening to ppl whining about sanctions (who are *always* innocent of course) is a perfectly reasonable method of acquiring the truth. Fact is, everyone says they are innocent. They are not. You dont have to be a genius to realize you are making far more gil than should be possible. But because ppl are profiting from it, they try to convince themselves that its all totally legit. Its hard to turn away anything that gives you a huge benefit, even if all common sense tells you that you should.

Willful blindness is a very real psychological trap used to justify behavior. Ppl will tell themselves anything if it means justifying a huge profit.

120k from allagans and questing in two weeks worth of time. But of course I must be lying and proclaiming my innocence to save those millions of gil I have stashed away.. such fail logic. Some people ARE innocent. SE is guilty of using a gauntlet instead of a glove.

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Originally Posted by Delita

Spee! Whats up buddy?

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Delita!!!! How are you mang!!!!

how is the whole LS, you guys get on your server ok?
you all having fun :P

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Originally Posted by Jeneti

I won't be paying for my sub if this isn't dealt with, not affected myself but it's not acceptable.

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Please provide us a screenshot as proof, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Mithril

120k from allagans and questing in two weeks worth of time. But of course I must be lying and proclaiming my innocence to save those millions of gil I have stashed away.. such fail logic. Some people ARE innocent. SE is guilty of using a gauntlet instead of a glove.

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120k in two weeks =/= 8+ million in a month. You only serve to prove the point.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

120k in two weeks =/= 8+ million in a month. You only serve to prove the point.

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Except for the fact you know, it was mostly from quests and those dry up somewhere roughly around 300k then I would have had a total of 300k and whatever pitiful amount I make off fates. Flawed.

Since the Japanese community manager seem much more active than the one for the English forum, I've done the one thing I can do for you guys: I tried to make a post in a related thread with my semi-broken Japanese and ask their community manager about the issues you are having. While it might not be much, I hope it can help you get a reply from SE sooner rather than later. Also, don't let the trolls trying to blame you for SE's misconduct get to you, that's the extend of the advice I can give. Peace out.

Also, do note that in SE's Community Manager's post, he specifically said that accounts are only suspended after thorough investigation and as far as they are concerned, no innocent players have been, or will ever be caught in the crossfire and he assured the Japanese players that if they play and make money legitimately there's nothing to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Licus

All this talk of sanctioning crafters and gathers make me afraid to invest time in this game. SE really bungled this re-release. I don't think I will be playing much anymore if they are taking 99% of what crafters/gathers earned legitimately.

If you never broke any rules, you should NEVER have negative actions taken against your account.


Real classy SE

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Bold part added by myself to mark the real problem in this thread. Most of you don't even know the truth of it yet are willing to believe "all this talk". I don't know the truth either, but no one but those affected by it or those really close to them can know it for a fact. It's their call and their right to vote with their wallet if they were unfairly punished (and should do it if that's the case), but for the rest of us to jump to conclusions it just seems weird and out of place. It just sounds like mass hysteria.

In your real life do you do things too based on something that someone that you don't even know said?

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

120k in two weeks =/= 8+ million in a month. You only serve to prove the point.

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Your ignorance is astounding.

I was the first 50 ARM on the server. Dinged 50 on 9/3. 50 ARM made me no gil whatsoever. Here's my indigent ass on that day:

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/2561/71ah.jpg

I made 50 LTW on 9/14, two weeks after making 50 ARM. Unfortunately, I don't have a snapshot of total gil then (I keep most of my gil on my retainer so I'm not tempted to spend it), but it was still fairly low -- in the 300k range. However, since the 14th, despite the costs of gearing up and all, I have made over 3 million gil selling endgame crafting/gathering equipment (raptorskin belts, chokers, green crafting gear) and doing a few melds. This is my current gil:

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2928/z07u.jpg

And this is a shot of my transaction list, which is how I made all that gil:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2199/mge2.jpg

This is despite slowing down considerably from my peak. I got tired of all the undercutting and pretty much only make gear for markets where no HQ item is available these days. Regardless, this is still 217,432 gil over two days. I'm clearly not selling items for huge amounts of gil. I'm selling items that any crafter in the storm can easily afford at standard market prices. If I had those two weeks back between the time I had 50 ARM and 50 LTW, I'd have enjoyed a market with one tenth the competition and would easily have made 10 million more. It has nothing at all to do with "selling to gil-buyers" because as I said, anyone and everyone who gets to 50 in a craft or DoL has plenty of gil to spend on these items.

Thanks Gamemako, for the well informed post.

Hopefully some of the others will see how some people made 8mil+ legit from crafting.

Feel bad for the crafters.. Kinda glad im broke ass ALC now lol

I have over 12 Million gil and i did it with my GSM but i wasnt touched. Hows that work. Im sure they looked at my log and notice thousands of sales on the market :p Dont get how "Innocent" people are getting thier gold removed.

Honestly a shameless bump.. Dunno why the other thread about the guy losing his gil has so many dman pages and why he just didnt post here! Need to keep this thread in the for front till SE communicates with us!

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Originally Posted by Matthew_John

1,000,000 gil! How could somebody make that much money! People with over 500k should be banned!!!!!

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500k isnt to bad. If i put more time into mining i could make that just selling bomb ash. Not to mention people buying high end mats for 50k+

It's really sad when people who devote their time into crafting and making well thought out marketing decisions are some of the ones to suffer. I plan to do the same in some of my crafting classes and this truly hinders me from doing so. It's very easy to see logs and sales on a persons account to determine who is "botting"/"scamming" or whatever you want to call it. So I don't understand out this is even a problem to begin with.