The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Again, you're not reading, or at least you're special pleading.

I specifically said that they should make NMs designed for Hardcore players, but they should also make it accessible to Casuals by making it take the same amount of effort.

So if it normally takes a week for a hardcore player to camp an NM and get an item to drop, they should make an alternate route for Casuals to be able to get the same or similar item through "guild points" or tokens of some kind. So... that negates your objections so I ask again:

What's wrong with this?

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it is seperating the content is whats wrong. same content same route. you don't need to seperate the content. just let ppl access, no need for seperate areas....'
remembered how well that worked before the civil rights movement?
cuz umm this is what its turning into... i'm just waiting fir an ffxiv "i have a dream speach"

and why I say this is because the "hardcore" groups will form up. Meaning no group for me to kill nm.get it

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

So if it normally takes a week for a hardcore player to camp an NM and get an item to drop, they should make an alternate route for Casuals to be able to get the same or similar item through "guild points" or tokens of some kind. So... that negates your objections so I ask again:

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That negates nothing. It's not a matter of drops, it's a matter of content. *all* content should be accessible to everyone. And i don't mean the *rewards* from the content, but the content itself.

This game already *lacks* content. It doesn't make the slightest sense for SE to design content that can be enjoyed just by a small minority of self-elected elites.

honestly this civil rights casual vs hardcore is getting old.
casual are not asking for easy mode
and hardcore are not no lifers.

stop putting these petty lables on each other as its starting to get silly.
no one wants content to be easy, no one wants stuff handed to them
casual are no worst then the hardcore
and hardcore are no better then the casuals

we all payed for ffxiv, as players. We are just that players. We all play the game at different times, and different durations. But we bought a game to enjoy. Bo one has any more right to content then any other person

we all just want content to have fun with. And beable to do all content SE makes.

I just do not want to be left out of content because of not enough players, which was my biggest pet peeve of ffxi. I had time to do content. The only reason I couldn't was groups were full. I only got to do a lil bit of dynamis (till shell broke over drama) and lil bit of sky (till shell broke over drama)

I thought I already fixed this problem with a brilliant idea for the "hardcore".

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Ok I got the solution to this problem right here. For the Hardcore SE can make an NM that has a respawn window of 36 hours. Then the NM also has 10,000,000HP and take roughly 24 hours to take down so it's super hard. The reward for taking down the NM is you get 1 shiny coin. When you have 100 shiny coins you can trade them to an NPC along with an item of your choice and that item will then become a +4 item.

As a casual player I would not have a problem with the hardcore players doing something like that, because frankly anyone who could pull it off would definitely deserve there +4 Tricorn.

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And to be clear I never caused any of my LS drama my sky LS had NA and EU players and a ffxi revolutionary war happen in my LS a british player tried to take over the shell and force the leader to quit by making it so no one could do sky when he got on.

my dynamis linkshell broke up over 2 paladins fighting over armor. 1 guy was tokd he could loot that run, the run before. But then a player back from break pulled a sinoirity(sp) move and the first pally wasn't allowed to lot.

I just did the content to do content not get rewwarded for having fun >.>

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I thought I already fixed this problem with a brilliant idea for the "hardcore".

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sounds like making a relic weapon in ffxi.
just about 1000 times harder XD
let's not be hard on the harcores, make it 99 shiny coins haha.

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Originally Posted by Black_Rose

sounds like making a relic weapon in ffxi.
just about 1000 times harder XD
let's not be hard on the harcores, make it 99 shiny coins haha.

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But they are HARDCORE this is what they do!!!!! Making it 99 coins would just be making it easy mode duh ^^

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I thought I already fixed this problem with a brilliant idea for the "hardcore".

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as ppl are saying its not about the rewards, its being allowed to do the content ingeneral. I personally don;t care for rewards. I just wanna have fun.
I saw sea just befor i couldn't play from money issues. and i have been playing the game since ps2 launch. the reason it took so long was due to lack of help. I ended uo doing afterv the level caps were gone.
I will say i felt good soloing the 3 mini bosses at each of the 3 towers to gain acess to the palace. I even had linked a few times so I fought about 4 of those "angel" thingies. was fun :3

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

But they are HARDCORE this is what they do!!!!! Making it 99 coins would just be making it easy mode duh ^^

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ya and even hardcore get screwed over since there will not be ebough people to form groups for every hardcore.
big issue in ffxi btw.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

That negates nothing. It's not a matter of drops, it's a matter of content. *all* content should be accessible to everyone. And i don't mean the *rewards* from the content, but the content itself.

This game already *lacks* content. It doesn't make the slightest sense for SE to design content that can be enjoyed just by a small minority of self-elected elites.

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Well, as long as they keep the drop rates REALLY low, then I can agree with this.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Well, as long as they keep the drop rates REALLY low, then I can agree with this.

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Low drop rates = more times to try and have fun. I agree with that. I just want to do the content for once.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

umm no. thats being gamist my new term for game racist casual vs hardcore. Sorry but.. thats dumb. Who would want to play a game that they have no way to get that gear because they can't spend hours and hours on a game?
if no one can get the same gear what would the point of playing be?
The more you limit those who play less the less people can play.
remember players will end up requiring this said gear if you a casual you will get looked down on for not playing so much. How is that fun?

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You have a good point. From my experience with other MMO's you might be looked down on, but if you can do your roll properly... there usually isn't any problems. However, I am an avid believer on those who can muster the time to get better gear should have harder dungeons/raids for their gear. Might not be fair... but thats life. Right now I don't have the time I would like myself, but when I do in the future, I want there to be an advantage to being a hardcore player. If there isn't one... this game will die and most people will leave.

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Originally Posted by buritoslicer

You have a good point. From my experience with other MMO's you might be looked down on, but if you can do your roll properly... there usually isn't any problems. However, I am an avid believer on those who can muster the time to get better gear should have harder dungeons/raids for their gear. Might not be fair... but thats life. Right now I don't have the time I would like myself, but when I do in the future, I want there to be an advantage to being a hardcore player. If there isn't one... this game will die and most people will leave.

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um games don't = life dude...
so ya they should be fair for all.
why should i get screwed over even though I had the time. Just because I couldn't join a group as yet again there was no room in said groups.
sorry but limiting content cuz u wanna feel special is skrewing others out of content even if they do have time.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

um games don't = life dude...
so ya they should be fair for all.
why should i get screwed over even though I had the time. Just because I couldn't join a group as yet again there was no room in said groups.
sorry but limiting content cuz u wanna feel special is skrewing others out of content even if they do have time.

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Perhaps I am phrasing my point wrong... but I'm relating this to end game content from boss drops... rare finds... e.t.c... The better gear drops off of bosses, while the lesser gear you earn through tokens or badges which would be somewhat easy to get (not handed out). That way, when you do put some time in the game (casual or hardcore) you get a sense of accomplishment for what you get. To get the better gear you should have the lesser easier gear to successfully be useful to the group. Even if you play casually, you can slowly work your way up to the better gear. I personally think that is a fair trade.

Hope that clears my point up a bit.

seperated content will cause more issues then fixing them.
there will not be enough players to do the "longer" content with. And even those with free time will miss out on doing said content.
And why should content be measured in the reward you get? Why not measure the content by how much of a challenge it is?

you can make content be open to all players AND make the gear and fight worth doing by anyone. You don't need longer fight to be "harder" in a way, the longer the fight the easier it is. You have all the time you got to kill the creature or run though a dungeon. Why not make it harder by adding time limits? much like bcnm. Maybe it so you have to be quick and skilled to do the dungeon before time runs out? and you earn points to spend on rewards. And make getting points take time. That way no one is handed gear, the content is still challenging, and anyone can access it.

I loved doing bcnm when i knew ppl to do them. Anyone can do it the, there had some challenging ones. and had good rewards.

kinda like doing ff8 first mission where you got ifirt yoyu set a time limit to do it in and had to do it with in that time frame.
And items can radomly drop also but the better rewards are from points.
As long as everyone can asscess the same content, and that content is fun, challenging, and rewards are actusally worth it. I have no issues.

I just personally do not want to be left out because of lacking players.
its not fun having time to do all this content but still not get to all because there is no room in the groupd doing the content.

I think a big barier between having content that rewards the person who spends alot of time and the one who spends little is hard to balance for obvious reasons.

I personally think the best aproach is for most end-game activities to have some sort of progress for your character so you can at least "Work towards" something that you want. Maybe you wont have the time to get every item possible but at least you can say.

Well at least I only have to go ____ more times to get my _____. Instead of the former option of. Man I can do Dynamis once a month...so I wont ever be able to lot on the gear that drops...and even if I can! chances are I wont be lucky enough to get the item.

The reason it's unfair is because long term players have more "Chances to get lucky" and most groups tend to feel like rewarding the players who will help them more in the long run. "Why give the palladin his shield when he is only here for 1 run a week!?" attitude. At least if there is some sort of progress like Ichor that is accumulated and can be spent for specific items you can have a sense of no matter how much time you have to invest. You are making progress.

I think it's the sense of feeling that if you can't invest your life into the game you get shafted at making ANY visible progress at all and get passed over for playes who play more making it even harder ontop of your playtime to get items.

I'm all for getting lucky and getting the Ridill, but give people options to get items that are fairly on par "maybe not AS good, depends on how you want to roll with it really" but give people who can't invest a lifetime into the game a chance to work towards something so they can say I worked for this.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

kinda like doing ff8 first mission where you got ifirt yoyu set a time limit to do it in and had to do it with in that time frame.
And items can radomly drop also but the better rewards are from points.
As long as everyone can asscess the same content, and that content is fun, challenging, and rewards are actusally worth it. I have no issues.

I just personally do not want to be left out because of lacking players.
its not fun having time to do all this content but still not get to all because there is no room in the groupd doing the content.

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Thats actually a good idea. I loved that mission :P

Whatever they do, I definitely want some challenge. Bosses that require a lot of teamwork to down and such.

jynx did it every occure to you that, thats all in your mind. And don;t even need to be true.

i am a person who does and will have time to play a game. So please don;t assume I don't.

unfortunatly..... due to the limitations everyone here wants. I was unable to do the content anyway. There wasn't, i repeat, was not enough "play longer" players to do said content. So i got let out.
here is my player stats
most jobs were above 5 most my sub were 49 my main dnc was 90 my sub main mnk was 80 my old main rdm was 69 (was 70) I was stuck on rank 8 sandy dm for zilart, the sea missions for cop, on the fight with shantotto in treasures, on purple is the new black in wings.
i only end game i did was sky for a mnth and dynamis for a mnth. Both those shells broke and i for 3 years I couldn't find any other shell to join. All wree full.

so i did only about 20% of ffxi. and missed a good 80% even with 12-20 hrs of play time. That is what happens when you limit players. Less of them can join.

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Originally Posted by buritoslicer

Thats actually a good idea. I loved that mission :P

Whatever they do, I definitely want some challenge. Bosses that require a lot of teamwork to down and such.

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adding content with "challenging fight and time limits adds to the challenge but.. it lets anyone do them. And if point offer the bigger reward but you can gear mini gear on the event i think that is fair.

I love having to beat a ticking clock. It gets my blood going. Much like that bomb bcnm where after a few min it counts down.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

adding content with "challenging fight and time limits adds to the challenge but.. it lets anyone do them. And if point offer the bigger reward but you can gear mini gear on the event i think that is fair.

I love having to beat a ticking clock. It gets my blood going. Much like that bomb bcnm where after a few min it counts down.

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yeah, that or even some berserk timers... if we don't kill the boss before a certain time he will wipe the whole group. thats always fun :P

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Originally Posted by buritoslicer

yeah, that or even some berserk timers... if we don't kill the boss before a certain time he will wipe the whole group. thats always fun :P

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yes please :3

like some epic rage mode (maybe with mini cs showing your doom.) :P

see i want fights to be "hard" but just anyone can do it to earn rewards (not hand out rewards that is no fun)

what sucks is I really wanted to do nyzul isl because it remended me of ultimacina castle when you loose everything. including the ability to save XD

what is cool about timed fights/conte is they can be feild base too.

but more importently I just want to haave fun. I don;t care how long uit takes to earn rewards. Just as long as I can see the content with friends and ls mates. I'm good :) I just want ffxiv to be more popular then ffxi. So we never have to do server merges. where ppl actuslly showcase an ffmmo and get of the wow bandwagon :/

On the first page, look at how many people liked alicia's response to a question.
Then look at how many people like'd xeno's response to that same question.

Hardcores, I'm sorry. You are outnumbered. You are outmatched. You'd better start acting like it or you'll be the one out on your ass with NO product, as opposed to the product you're allowed if you assimilate a little.

If you try to press your luck and take the hard line, you'll be taking it outside. Fin. 44 to 1, you don't stand a chance. If you're not with us, you're finished.

What the **** do you mean the growing entitlement of the casuals? We run this house, son. You live under our roof. We keep the lights on. Not you.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

On the first page, look at how many people liked alicia's response to a question.
Then look at how many people like'd xeno's response to that same question.

Hardcores, I'm sorry. You are outnumbered. You are outmatched. You'd better start acting like it or you'll be the one out on your ass with NO product, as opposed to the product you're allowed if you assimilate a little.

If you try to press your luck and take the hard line, you'll be taking it outside. Fin. 44 to 1, you don't stand a chance. If you're not with us, you're finished.

What the **** do you mean the growing entitlement of the casuals? We run this house, son.

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Then this game will fail, because everyone knows a 'casual' player cannot stick with one game for more than 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Moth

Then this game will fail, because everyone knows a 'casual' player cannot stick with one game for more than 3 months.

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They've stuck with WoW for nearly as long as XI. Keep telling yourself you're needed by someone.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

They've stuck with WoW for nearly as long as XI. Keep telling yourself you're needed by someone.

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Dude, WoW is starting to look hardcore compared to this update! Cry more.

I'm not crying, I'm laughing at you.
You are an optional demographic, and one that has proven time and time again that you should be an extinct one because you annoy the rest of us with your painful gameplay pitches and...well pretty much squatter's rights arguments. You're here the most so you own it, is that it?

Either build me a nice log cabin and garden or get off my property. If you can't play nice...if you think everything you see is YOURS...------>

Again, you're an option. Act like it.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

I'm not crying, I'm laughing at you.
You are an optional demographic, and one that has proven time and time again that you should be an extinct one because you annoy the rest of us with your painful gameplay pitches and...well pretty much squatter's rights arguments. You're here the most so you own it, is that it?

Either build me a nice log cabin and garden or get off my property. If you can't play nice...if you think everything you see is YOURS...------>

Again, you're an option. Act like it.

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I always had a sliver of hope for this game, and continue to play it religiously... but after this update... I don’t really know. I honestly don't have a problem with the low lvl nms and the low level gear that they drop, not a problem at all. Nor do I have a problem with the update as a whole. But I do find the 3 minute spawn time just disheartening... there is absolutely no challenge or excitement, not even for casual players. I am not saying I want these nms to have like a 5 hour pop window, but even the level 10 nms in XI took at least 45 mins... and had a placeholder. Everyone knew everything there is to know about these nms in about 2 hours after the servers were up... that is obviously not "casual player" behavior to jump on ever NM right when they are released.

This game just seems to be getting more and more directed for people who want everything handed to them on a silver platter... it is sad to see a game that had so much potential head in this direction. You are a dedicated player as well Pere, I find it kind of hard to believe that you are perfectly fine with this… also please stop being so rude on the official forms when people are just trying to have a discussion or a debate….

I am not trying to flame or anything. I honestly love this game and I don't see myself quitting because of this update because I still have hope. All I want is for a dev to say something about this, that this game will head in a more challenging and fun direction and there will be suitable end-game for players who want more of a test.. no matter how long it will take them I just want the information... : \

Jesus christ stop being so dramatic.

I just want more info from the devs, how is that dramatic?

ITT: hardcores crying about the game not being tough enough. Mr Hardcores I think there is a game(FFXI) with 24 hour NMs and such they just got some big updates too you might wanna go try that out it sounds like its more your speed. Then again you could hang out here and cry about what this game isnt. Either way its your call.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

ITT: hardcores crying about the game not being tough enough. Mr Hardcores I think there is a game(FFXI) with 24 hour NMs and such they just got some big updates too you might wanna go try that out it sounds like its more your speed. Then again you could hang out here and cry about what this game isnt. Either way its your call.

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Your attempt at wit is more amusing (because you tried so hard and it just looks jumbled) than the actual message. Whatever that may be.

I do feel that casual players should be able to get the Majority of the gear that anyone else can get, but I do also feel that there should be at least a few things in the game that only hardcore players can get.

Think about it in real life examples. This person goes to only highschool, this other person goes to highschool and goes to college and gets a degree in a field that he will be able to get a job in and live quite well off.
The second guy is going to have a much nicer car to drive to work in than the first guy, because of the time he put into it all. IT IS FAIR, regardless of how you look at it, if you take the jealousy and envy goggles off.

Again, I don't mind if the more casual players have good gear, but if I can fight an extra tough NM, or do a long dungeon/raid or anything like that, and get a special piece of gear that not everyone is entitled to.. well what do I need to explain about that?
It's awesome, something to wear with pride. If anything they could make the items tradeable so the more casual players have at least the option to buy them given the chance, but otherwise leave it to the hardcore players to earn them.

If there will be no purpose to the dungeons, or raids, or NM's, then they might as well not even exist at all.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Your attempt at wit is more amusing (because you tried so hard and it just looks jumbled) than the actual message. Whatever that may be.

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I typed that out in about 60 seconds and im a slow at typing....but yea you right dog I been thinkin bout this thread all day and finally came up with what I thought was an awsome response and you straight burned me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDLhabLSzNM

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Originally Posted by Moth

Then this game will fail, because everyone knows a 'casual' player cannot stick with one game for more than 3 months.

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not true please stop with this petty labling, its getting old.

Tbh, there should be a bit of a mix. Yes, the game should be accessable to everyone who wishes to play it (this isnt some country club). However, there should be varying degrees of difficulty on certain aspects of the game. I'm not talking about longer time syncs (tbh i think 3-4 hours straight is plenty of time) but more, the challenge and experience of the content.

For example, I personally want the game to feel like an adventure, being that there should be a selection of tasks, issues and difficulties i would have to deal with.

Personally, I would prefer to work a little harder (i hate the term, work but it will have to do) for certain "rewards". This does not however, mean longer.

On the other hand, there should be content which is moderate in difficulty and perhaps takes less time to accomplish. (leves seem like the perfect example here). However, the "reward" should not be as great as say going into an anchient castle and fighting some unspeakable creature at the end.

Hardcore in my opinion should not be something that takes many hours of uninterupted gameplay to finish, but perhaps if the system worked so you could take a break, then the content would be accessable to everyone. Same content, different speeds of play

Kimiko x

MUDD there is a slight issue... games are not real life.
if you limit content, you slowly limit everyone. There will be not enough "play lfor longer" players to do said only content.
Thays how ffxi was like and i only saw 20% of the game with 12-20 hour game play sessions. I just had no group cuz everyone else was full.

guys no one is saying content for all can'r be challenge I made a suggestion ton how content can be challenging AND open to everyone.
something limt time-limit dongeon runs and boss battles. you only have so much time to kill a boss or do a dungeon run. or have dingeon runs where like the nms go into rage mode if you can't kill stifv fast enough.
why must there be seperate content? thayt woill only limit everyone from doing it. both "casual" and "hardcore"