To answer your first question, I believe it was sometime in 2008 but I couldn't get more specific than that. Couldn't find the answer after 5 min of searching on Google lol. I'm afraid I can't answer the other questions either, but I will refer you back to the original article: http://rushprnews.com/2012/07/11/new...nomy-by-mmobuxQuote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
The authors of the article might be able to respond with more specificity. As the article states, there's been a steady 14% drop in the prices of RMT'd currency in that game since 2007, which amounts to over 50% drop in value in 5 years on average. As the graph shows, there are random fluctuations so the actual impact ranges from 40-75%. Amusingly, there seems to be a "Chinese New Year's" price hike as all the RMT go on vacation (see 2nd graph in the article).
The paper was published fairly recently (July 2012), but their data only goes to October 2011, so it's likely that there is some kind of delay involved in processing the data.
SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR
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11-07-2012, 12:39 PMaxemtitanium
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11-07-2012, 12:42 PMAbriaelI provided plenty. For almost 50 pages, most of which you disregarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
I simply don't need to do further digging work. Yoshida already took a look at it and judged it interesting. He'll consider it for the future. With that premise, persuading you is inconsequential and doing further work to that end simply a waste of my time, especially considering that a full timeline of the history of EVE is not available (besides the one in game)Quote:
You certainly would gain additional credibility if you did share it. That seems like a fair tradeoff
The fluctuations are probably expansions. EVE Online has two free expansions a year. One in the winter and one in the summer (normally june). They match with the spikes. Expansion = More people playing = More demand for ISK. -
11-07-2012, 12:46 PMSasanctus
from the article I linked
Highest and Lowest Recorded ISK prices
For the trivia buffs, the highest ever price recorded in our pricing data was $39.96 for 400 million ISK on June 19, 2007, which coincidentally was also the launch of the Revelations II expansion. Just a week after that – and the subsequent release of the Game-Time Card – ISK prices plunged by a third to roughly $26.
The lowest recorded ISK price was $9.34 on June 18, 2009, after which followed a massive spike in ISK prices that would persist for more than a year.
Since the recording of the data, prices have made a slight dip, but stayed in the range of around $10 for 400 million ISK throughout 2012 as can be seen in our current day chart. -
11-07-2012, 12:51 PMGodseijuroHikoGoing off your posts so far: You think the system makes a bit of sense yes? You also don't approve because you're not comfortable with RMT. One can respect that. You're demanding from the OP what almost 50 pages of mudslingers wouldn't even do. He's been providing statement after statement responding to astounding ignorance and personal bias. If you wish to find out more about the chart, then YOU research it. He brought it to our attention. You really are grasping at straws man. I respected all of your posts, and I know you're smart enough to know that you are grasping at straws. Let it end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
I maybe wrong, but I think you're not being honest about the intent of your questions. If YOU can find more data concerning the questions you asked to show why the system is an ULTRA BAD idea as other's have suggested, have at you.
You came back just to lay the burden of proof on the OP, and for what? You have demonstrated that you did research while you voiced your opinions. I can only assume you came up with nothing. You don't like the idea of RMT, that much is clear. Let it end. Please. -
11-07-2012, 12:55 PMJynx
It's a shame the chart doesn't tell us about actual activity and not just prices.
Lower prices doesn't mean they are making less money... -
11-07-2012, 12:59 PMRylock
You can check the current going prices on that mmobucks site, the current going price for isk appears to be ~$9 / 400m, which is less than the lowest price in the graph that covered the last few years, though it seems the price has been flat for a few months.
http://www.mmobux.com/images/graph/game/eve.gif
The big spikes in the market appear to coincide with expansions, chinese new year, and the big spike in 2009 seems to be when someone robbed a bank. Yep. There was a bank. And someone walked away with it. And then the CCP banned a bunch of farmers so people lost all their money and supplies were low. -
11-07-2012, 01:00 PMAndrien
It is quiet apparent that some individuals don't know how PLEX work. Participating in the thread without some knowledge of the system is plane ignorance.
I present this search tool to educate all those in need. It should take less than 5mins to learn all about PLEX and its history.
Use this superpower well.
http://www.google.com/ -
11-07-2012, 01:00 PMaxemtitaniumActually it generally does. The only reason the price would go up or down is because of supply and demand. We can make a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery rough assumption that the same volume of RMT transactions holds equal across the timeline of the chart. The RMTers react to dips in volume of transactions by decreasing the price and surges in transactions by increasing the price (i.e. reacting to demand). Thus, when we see the price go down, it's because demand for RMT'd money has gone down and the RMTers have to lower their price to stay competitive and maintain their volume of transactions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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11-07-2012, 01:01 PMAbriaelIt actually does. The EVE population has grown constantly since it's beginning, so it's safe to assume that activity has grown. The only real dip in EVE population has been with the Incarna debacle from June 2011 to when CCP made amends in the winter (it has now recovered fully and more).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
The fact that the price of ISK drops, still means that ISK sellers are making less money compared to what they would make if it was to remain constant, or grow, regardless of activity.
Not that we really need it to know that PLEX (and GTC before, but less because the system was kind of unwieldy) made a dent on the earnings of RMT.
When you introdice an element of competition in the market, profit always drops. And PLEX are an element of competition against RMT. -
11-07-2012, 01:03 PMJynxQuote:
Originally Posted by axemtitanium
Corelation =/= Causation.
Just because it would make sense that lower prices meant slower sales, it could also just be they find they get overall more sales at this price point and find no need to adjust the price in a dog eat dog market. Having a stable customer base even for RMT isn't something to sneeze at.
I'm ashamed to admit I had some business dealings with RMT companies a while back (Not as a buyer but as a designer for their web-adds) and in the process I got to know one of the guy behind a fairly large english lead RMT market, it's pretty business like in their neck of the woods at least.
Not sure about the Chinese RMT, but the guy I knew would go for stabillity over short term profits and customer loss to the competition. -
11-07-2012, 01:03 PMHartQuote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingolf
Sick burn, man. You really got me good. That will make me think twice about messing with you. -
11-07-2012, 01:03 PMDuuude007
The OP has made it clear that he supports the concept of Real Money Trade if managed by the Devs. That is not up for debate, he has shown the support of using Real money as a means for virtual profit.
This chart has however been repeatedly thumped as proof of how it works. I felt that this was missing important data to be able to legitimately tie it to the core point, that it halts real money trade activity.
Based on the article, the plex implementation was not even considered when they made the graph. What does this mean for the relevance of the graph?
And even if it was tied to the graph indirectly, Plex implementation in 2008 means a 75% drop counting 2007 is an irresponsible claim. -
11-07-2012, 01:04 PMaxemtitaniumLOL I remember reading about that a few years ago. Informative link. Hilarious that it made the rounds on "regular" gaming news sites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylock
I believe Rylock's post answers your other 3 questions sufficiently. I'm not sure what you mean by "Plex implementation in 2008 means a 75% drop counting 2007 is an irresponsible claim". You have to compare values from before and after the implementation of PLEX. 2007 is before and RMT costed $40. 2009 is after and RMT costed $10. There was an average decrease in RMT prices of 50% since the implementation of PLEX in 2008. The maximum decrease was 75%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
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11-07-2012, 01:10 PMMontijin
I'm for this. At the end of the day RMT is going to happen regardless of whether or not a system like this is implemented; we might as well have that money go towards developing more content instead of the money going to shady RMT.
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11-07-2012, 01:10 PMAbriaelIt doesn't. As the trending is evident. Mind you, as usual you're pulling a strawman. As no one here said that it *halts* real money trade activity. It hampers it considerably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
Also. If you weren't so hell bent on trying to prove *reality* and basic economy theory wrong, you would need just simple logic to know that introducing a solid element of competition in the market reduces profits.
Too bad that the concept of PLEX is an evolution of Game Time Codes, that were introduced way before (at the start of the chart). They were less intuitive to use, and required direct interaction, but they still worked under the same principle.Quote:
and even if it was tied to the graph indirectly, Plex implementation in 2008 means a 75% drop counting 2007 is an irresponsible claim.
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11-07-2012, 01:26 PMSasanctus
The chart starts in the month Revelations II expansion was launched the week after Game time codes came out. They work the same way as plexes but were less user friendly.
From eve wiki:
What you do is log into your Account Management page
From there you go: My Account >> Account Services >> Securely Sell EVE Time Code
The procedure there is straightforward
1. You select the character selling the code.
2. You type in the name of the character you are selling the code to.
3. You type in your price for the timecode.
The system will automatically verify the validity of the code, and then send the buyer an EVEmail with the offer. The offer is valid for 48 hours. The buyer must log into the account management page and accept the offer.
The gametime will be automatically added to the buyers account and the payment will be automatically deposited to the seller’s wallet.
These were sold via the forums like characters are atm in eve with people bidding on them until seller excepts. -
11-07-2012, 02:11 PMSasanctus
@Abriael you should probably edit the first post to clarify the graph saying: This graph show the price of ISK in USD from just before the first incarnation of plexes (Game time codes) where introduced to eve through to the end of 2011.
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11-07-2012, 02:17 PMDuuude007
Rate of currency price drop in the past 6 months for ISK versus Gil:
http://www.mmobux.com/images/graph/game/eve.gif
Versus:
http://www.mmobux.com/images/graph/game/ffxiv.gif -
11-07-2012, 02:23 PMAbriaelIt's really the same thing. But oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasanctus
@Duude: More grasping at straws. FFXIV is a dead game. It's data is inconsequential. Comparing data from a healthy and growing game with data from a dead one with a plummeting playerbase serves no purpose other than trying to muddle the issue. -
11-07-2012, 02:32 PMDuuude007You sir, have underestimated and insulted the dedication of the X|V community with this assertion. Not much else to say about that. Nor about this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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11-07-2012, 02:39 PMAbriaelLOL. You mean I have underestimated the dedication of the few remaining hundreds of people on the servers to buy gil from gilsellers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
Someone has run out of arguments. -
11-07-2012, 02:47 PMaxemtitanium
The huge drop in gil price during mid-September was directly caused by the Atomos exploit. For the first time ever, regular players had an easy way to do what RMTs do all the time: increase the amount of gil in circulation. Thus, no one wanted to buy gil anymore and prices dropped. Simple enough explanation.
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11-07-2012, 02:50 PMShougunAnd natural equilibrium over time. I knew a couple gold sellers in D3 - and I did a little my self (though it is legal in D3 :P) you over priced it and just brought it down as the market understood what it wanted to pay for. It wasnt blizzard doing anything other then the market had flux due to amount of players coming in, players coming out, and general understanding of worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
Made a few hundred (dollars) XD.
Even with PLEX it is obvious RMT wasn't destroyed - PLEX just helped find the equilibrium price faster. And also made it legal to buy in game currency. PLEX != RMT killer.
All plex does is make gold -buying- allowed, and allow players who dont want to use real money to buy monthly passes. -
11-07-2012, 02:59 PMaxemtitanium
PLEX =/= Diablo 3's RMAH. The concepts are so different that they probably shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. No one said PLEX was an RMT killer. There's no such thing because (illegal) RMT will always exist for as long as an online game is running. However, PLEX is demonstrably an RMT deterrent which will drastically reduce the prevalence of RMT bots and their impact on the normal, legal, functioning economy. EVE uses PLEX but they also play whack-a-mole just as much as SE does. There's no magic bullet single solution to defeating RMT.
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11-07-2012, 03:08 PMGokuloThat's horrible. And doesn't change the fact that it was a dead game. Having a couple hundred people blindly in love playing it doesn't make it any different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
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11-07-2012, 03:12 PMAbriaelIt's funny how people continue to try and refute something no one argued. Strawman anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
You can't kill RMT. No one argued that you can or that PLEX can. You can just damage it, and in the process reduce its ability to generate currency and inject it into the market (reducing it's inflation effect).
That's what PLEX Does, in addition to helping the game retain subscribers. -
11-07-2012, 03:16 PMShougunI only brought D3 in to talk about personal experience with equilibrium points. Plex only introduced minor competition - comeptition doesnt drive the market away it just makes prices better for consumers.Quote:
Originally Posted by axemtitanium
RMT will still sell. I'm not sure why it is good to list a pro to the addition of plex as "lowers the cost of buying illegal currency".
All it will do is make RMT become competitive rather then having a monopoly on the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Rather then a happy bees-nest you decided to slap it and now have a competitive bees-nest. -
11-07-2012, 03:18 PMGokuloBecause there is now way to completely remove RMT from the game. And the proponents of this system did not even argue it can, only some people assumed so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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11-07-2012, 03:21 PMShougunThe only real shiny point the system I guess I wrongfully thought it touted was that it hampered RMT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokulo
Otherwise it just makes buying currency easier then ever and lets some people play the game for free if they have time to grind to pay to play. -
11-07-2012, 03:25 PMAbriaelAn economic system with competition is much less profitable than an economic system dominated by monopoly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
Therefore, the system damages RMT.
Mind you, the PLEX system doesn't even play fair as competition, because it offers security, something that no RMT provider can offer and that has a rather crucial value, considering the effort that goes into a MMORPG character.
When prompted to buy a car with brakes and one with no brakes, most people will buy the one with brakes, no matter the price offered by the manufacturer of the car with no brakes.
The fact that you define it "minor competition", is clear evidence that you really have large problems understanding how economy works in a MMORPG or in any environment, really. -
11-07-2012, 03:28 PMShougunCompetition takes away their profit sure but that doesn't matter honestly. Their existence hasn't been hampered at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
The only point at which it would matter is if they no longer existed. Otherwise talking about -their- bottom line is a waste of breath.
And how you pick out particular structures of words and fixate on them is petty. Stop trying to make an argument on syntax and grammar whilst insulting people on those choices. -
11-07-2012, 03:37 PMAbriaelI'm afraid I have to let you into the secret that telling you that you have problems understanding something (which you do), is not an insult. As much as you'd like to pass it as such to play victim.Quote:
And how you pick out particular structures of words and fixate on them is petty. Stop trying to make an argument on syntax and grammar whilst insulting people on those choices.
Choice of words is very important in discussion, and the fact that you called it "minor" was evidently purposeful in trying to downplay its effect. And telling.
According to your logic, since it's impossible to completely remove RMT, Square Enix and other MMORPG developer should stop fighting RMT altogether, since "It doesn't matter".Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
Yet, you're completely wrong.
RMT firms are companies. No less, no more. They have employees, thrive on profit and, besides the fact that often engage in illegal activities like identity and credential theft and credit card fraud, they work exactly like any other company.
Cutting their profits means that, if they want to continue being profitable (thing that is indispensible to survive), they need lower their expenses. In order to lower their expenses they need to cut their budget in the game in which their profits are being cut. Since their only relevant expense is paying their employees, they need to cut the number of employees working in that particular game.
Less workforce working on FFXIV -> Less gil generated and injected into the market -> Less inflation.
It's an ironclad equation. So yes, it does matter, a lot.
Mind you, some could easily just decide that it's not worth it to use their employees on FFXIV, as they can simply move them to another game where they have no official competition, and where their profits aren't hampered, effectively removing a few RMT players from the market. There's very little reason to keep people working on a difficult market when you could just use them into an easy one. -
11-07-2012, 03:44 PMShougunSo telling that you feel the need to run around and insult those on opposing ideas. You are very telling yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
You need to go play in the darkside for a little bit. You somehow think they lay all their cards on the table at once. They stock pile massive amounts of currency and sell it at the highest points possible - if they flood the market their price HAS to drop due to economic law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Even when they are doing really well they do their best not to devalue their money.
I wouldn't say that a major hit to their pricing wouldn't effect staffing but I know that demand is demand and the introduction of PLEX wouldn't kill currency demand - the currency would still be created but instead of being made by RMT companies it is being made by players to pay for the PLEX pass. As I said before the PLEX turns players into little RMTs. -
11-07-2012, 03:57 PMAbriaelIn fact I didn't say that you insulted me. I just specified that I didn't, and mentioned that you're playing victim to try and hide the fact that your arguments are collapsing :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
That doesn't really matter. It just means that the effect won't be immediate. Reserves run out. No matter how big they are. A reduction in personnel will inevitably result in a reduction in gil introduced in the market. Gil doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. People have to farm it. Less people, less gil.Quote:
You need to go play in the darkside for a little bit. You somehow think they lay all their cards on the table at once. They stock pile massive amounts of currency and sell it at the highest points possible - if they flood the market their price HAS to drop due to economic law.
You may say it as many times you want, but the comparison doesn't hold. Players that only need to farm enough gold to get their monthly paid, once a month, are absolutely not comparable to gold farmers that do that for a living on 8-10 hours shifts, with 8 characters in multiboxing. Without even mentioning that players are players. They run normal content, do dungeons, get drops, craft as part of their normal routines and so forth. A large percentage of people won't need to put themselves down to specifically farm the gil for their account, as they already have gil to spare, and generate it regularly.Quote:
I wouldn't say that a major hit to their pricing wouldn't effect staffing but I know that demand is demand and the introduction of PLEX wouldn't kill currency demand - the currency would still be created but instead of being made by RMT companies it is being made by players to pay for the PLEX pass. As I said before the PLEX turns players into little RMTs.
A large percentage of the currency demand will be shifted on the safe system (PLEX), reducing demand towards gold farming firms radically, no matter how much they lower their prices.
If given the choice between getting gil without risking their account, and getting it while risking a permanent ban, most players won't think twice to completely abandon the gilselling firms as customers. -
11-07-2012, 04:05 PMShougunNot at all. I just find you are very rude and abrasive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
The only way a reduction in gil will happen is if the demand is as such - seeing as you love quoting economics so much surely this idea is obvious. PLEX does nothing to the demand of gil - it just adds a new supplier. Because it forces gil sellers to be come more competitive demand of gil will likely raise not lower - though the profit per gil for the gil sellers will be less. Competition is great for the consumer - in this case the consumer is someone that buys gil for an in game advantage, promoting a pay to win system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
What ever demand is left after those who got their monthlys is still in the hands of RMT - its not going to magically disappear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Safer practices for players is a good thing - but I dont want to play a game that lets players purchase advantage with their money (talking about direct advantage).Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
So long as the PLEX system accommodates the demand that the illegal RMTs filled. But the system hasn't gotten rid of RMT just made it safer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
I'd rather the system be dangerous and people get screwed over and banned then have SE or w.e company allow it and make it a safe practice. -
11-07-2012, 04:20 PMAbriaelSo before i was insulting. Now i'm rude and abrasive. Call me when you get to the final verison :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
I just don't feel the need to sweeten the pill when someone tries so hard to mislead the audience.
No, it adds a supplier in a condition of radical advantage, as it can offer a service that its competitors can't offer. Security.Quote:
The only way a reduction in gil will happen is if the demand is as such - seeing as you love quoting economics so much surely this idea is obvious. PLEX does nothing to the demand of gil - it just adds a new supplier.
Therefore, it shifts the demand on itself and away from suppliers that don't offer that service.
They can be as competitive as they want, but security is a rather prized merchandise when you're playing with something that costs months if not years to grow. Even if demand were to raise (unlikely, demand is not governed by offer, that's why you have two variables and not just one), it would raise for PLEX, not for gilsellers.Quote:
Because it forces gil sellers to be come more competitive demand of gil will likely raise not lower
Again with that improper definition of pay to win, lol.Quote:
promoting a pay to win system.
And it's gonna be much less. RMT will get the crumbs. A lot better than them getting the whole pie.Quote:
What ever demand is left after those who got their monthlys is still in the hands of RMT - its not going to magically disappear.
What you want or don't want is rather inconsequential to SE. This is a business decision. Business decisions aren't based on taste.Quote:
Safer practices for players is a good thing - but I dont want to play a game that lets players purchase advantage with their money (talking about direct advantage).
The system got rid of part of the RMT and of part of the negative effects (inflation due to constant injection in the market of unmanageable quantities of gil) of RMT.Quote:
So long as the PLEX system accommodates the demand that the illegal RMTs filled. But the system hasn't gotten rid of RMT just made it safer.
In addition to that, it helps the game retaining subs in a market in which Pay to Play MMORPGs are having a *lot* of trouble retaining subs.
It's a victory and much, much better than nothing. -
11-07-2012, 04:25 PMShougunSeriously? What do you think is a resultant feeling of being insulted? Joy? It is within the same lines. Dont even play that they are different versions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Ok so.. either I missread you are you have been mislead I felt you said that you were saying that PLEX will reduce the demand on RMT. But now you are saying it will just switch hands...Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Yes - of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
The system will only get rid of unmanageable quantities of gil if gil sellers were creating a false demand - which I have no idea how they would do that. Since RMT existence hasnt changed (PLEX system is RMT).Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
And I dont consider it a victory at all. I dont want a game that promotes RMT. I rather have it happen in the blackmarket with very high danger then happen safely within rule. -
11-07-2012, 04:30 PMAbriaelBut they are. Firmly refuting misguided and misleading arguments has nothing to do with rudeness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
PLEX is not a RMT firm. It acts on completely different principles and rules (as much as you try very hard to equalize the two to try and put an artificial negative stigma on it)-> PLEX reduces demand for RMT firms by shifting the demand on itself.Quote:
Ok so.. either I missread you are you have been mislead I felt you said that you were saying that PLEX will reduce teh demand on RMT. But now you are saying it will just switch hands...
RMT firms already generates unmanageable quantities of gil. That's why they cause heavyb inflation in every game where they prosper.Quote:
The system will only get rid of unmanageable quantities of gil if gil sellers were creating a false demand - which I have no idea how they would do that. Since RMT existence hasnt changed (PLEX system is RMT).
So you'd rather RMT firms damage the economy raidically, negatively affecting everyone's experience of the game (and giving up the chances of retaining more subs), than latting someone else get a limited amount of gil easier.Quote:
And I dont consider it a victory at all. I dont want a game that promotes RMT. I rather have it happen in the blackmarket with very high danger then happen safely within rule.
Thankfully business decisions aren't made on "I want" and "I don't want". -
11-07-2012, 04:36 PMJynx"Pay to win" Isn't a definite term, means different things to different people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
But more on to the real point, if RMT were getting "Crumbs" they would move on to other games it's obvious they are still making good money PLEX or not. Like I said just because the price per sale has gone down, doesn't mean the profits aren't high.
It's like telling me Wallmart is going bankrupt because they sell candy bars for $1.00 less than the mom-pop store across the street. RMT have amazingly low overhead and if people can get something cheaper a few scary stories of RMT hackings isn't going to deter them.
If anything PLEX does little to deter RMT activity, if anything in EVE it's the large time investment you can't buy with game cash/real cash (Aside from purchasing a account, but that's a entirely different affair)
Alot of other MMOs don't have people shaking in their boots at the thought of loosing the 12 hours they put into the max level character they are now twinking with ill-goten gains. Other than driving RMT to more and more desperate actions (Hacking, and whatnot) I don't really see how PLEX is crushing the RMT's market, if anything it's making them more efficient.
Competition breeds efficiency, what was a slack jawed group of people have become rather large operations due to the requirements of making a proper turnover in cash, like I said alot of these places are now run like a actual business. There is no real solution to RMT, all you can do is make it as inconvient, or unsavory to purchase from these guys as possible. Hell if anything trying to directly attack RMT has often hurt normal people in the cross fire.
Good example: FFXIV
We currently have a massive ammount of server side checks just to make sure we aren't cheating the game, alot of the "Lag" we experience is due to bad RMT countermeasures. -
11-07-2012, 04:37 PMShougunThey are not. If I say the world is black, and then say it is full of gloom. I haven't changed my line of thought - you continue to argue over the minutiae.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Did I say PLEX reduces RMT firms? I said PLEX doesnt change demand for RMT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
They generate and then hold until it sells. They cannot supply a demand that doesn't exist - if players buy they buy if they dont buy they dont buy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
RMT will exist either way your radically damage speech is mute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
And business decisions are indeed made by I wants and dont wants. Who do you think is the head of a buisiness? A robot?