New 7.1 hairstyle looks nothing like the winning hairstyle from the 2023 contest

Note of order. This thread has articles written about it. It is no longer about a hairstyle.
https://www.google.com/search?sca_es...ih=593&dpr=1.5

If you think this is just about a hairstyle. Wooooooooo, you wrong.

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Originally Posted by rblyell

Note of order. This thread has articles written about it. It is no longer about a hairstyle.
https://www.google.com/search?sca_es...ih=593&dpr=1.5

If you think this is just about a hairstyle. Wooooooooo, you wrong.

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Actually I think this is about dismissiveness towards a large but massively ignored demographic of the player base but this thread is only about the hairstyle and the implications of not replicating a hair texture that many people were excited to see represented in a sea of straight, untextured hairs that have all been recreated faithfully from their original concepts because they were not curly hair, which they evidently cannot be bothered to find a solution for. It is not about any of the other content in the patches besides the fact that they ignored 40+ pages of players expressing their concerns. The patch notes did not make any changes to the section this thread is referring to, nor did they add the statement from the forums to the patch notes, so the other content the has been added from the original preliminary patch notes does not matter.

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Originally Posted by Chesskyth

Hello.

Thank you for all your feedback on the hairstyle that will be implemented in Patch 7.1. We would like to apologize for the major confusion we have caused.

For this patch, we started work to implement "Natural Curls" from the winning entries of the Hairstyle Design Contest, based on the idea of adding not only straight hair but also a variety of other hairstyles.

However, as the development work progressed, the light, delicate, and voluminous curls required for Natural Curls could not be implemented perfectly, despite implementation of the recent graphical update in FFXIV, due to limitations such as the polygon count.

Therefore, the finished result is a hairstyle that has not been implemented as Natural Curls, but as a wavy bob hairstyle, which is called "Doing the Wave" in-game.

However, since we did use the winning entry as a reference in the development process, we included a statement to that effect in the patch notes. We are deeply sorry that this has resulted in a great deal of confusion and concern.

Although we were not able to make it happen this time, the development team will continue to strive to implement many more hairstyles in the future. As for Natural Curls, which was not implemented in Patch 7.1, we will persevere in our efforts to look for other ways to implement this hairstyle.

We appreciate your feedback and hope you continue to enjoy FFXIV!

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The response is appreciated, but this is not doing good enough. As images posted in this thread previously has shown, curls are possible for hairstyles via textures/hair cards. This hairstyle can be replicated by duplicated hair cards representing curls if the polygon maximum is too low.

Of course, there would be some complaints if the hair style looked lower quality, but in my opinion that is likely shared among all the other posters in this thread, I would rather have a more accurate representation of the hair than a high-quality one by the developer's standards. Sometimes the intention of representation matters more than the final quality, which in the case, delivered something completely different.

and when ppl will see the 3 hairstyles coming directly to mogstation, forum will be on fire ?

They keep saying "technical limits" but at this point they should know how to make curly hairstyles within those limitations. I can understand something not looking exactly like the concept art since it's hard to translate from 2d to 3d, but that doesn't excuse the end product looking like the intended hairstyle if the person got a swirly. As someone with curly hair I would have loved to try this hairstyle.

You guuuuys you don't geeeet it, we should feel so lucky to get scraps omgggg. How dare we want a hairstyle that could possibly pass as ethnic!! Isn't it enough that they're putting Black American outfits in the game?? They're being so culturally diverse!! So respectful to the cultures, so long as it's not Black culture!! Stop being sooooo greeeedy, how could we be so entitled!?!? We have a joke afro and racelocked halfassed dreads!!! Isn't that enough?! Don't you dare call them racist!! They're not racist!! We're the racists for wanting accurate textured hairstyles!! Wow, how woke! Shame on us all!

That's what some of the comments in here sound like. What an absolute disappointment.

What the heck?

7.1 is not making anybody happy is it?

From mechanics, to glamours, to even a new hair style... they're just Buster Keaton kicking their hat down the street.

It'd be fascinating if I were detached from it all.

Is this a way for SE to redeem themselves after that horrendous hairstyle ?

ANYWAYS ! ♥

https://i.ibb.co/rFrBhHg/Capture-d-c...-12-221005.png

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Originally Posted by BiddyBatnana

Is this a way for SE to redeem themselves after that horrendous hairstyle ?

ANYWAYS ! ♥

https://i.ibb.co/rFrBhHg/Capture-d-c...-12-221005.png

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SE, "We're sorry :(. MONEY PLEASE!"

I'm just here looking at that Hyur hairstyle and wondering what was stopping them from creating something similar to that. Was the dev that worked on that hairstyle gone or what? I mean it is an old hairstyle.

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

They keep saying "technical limits" but at this point they should know how to make curly hairstyles within those limitations. I can understand something not looking exactly like the concept art since it's hard to translate from 2d to 3d, but that doesn't excuse the end product looking like the intended hairstyle if the person got a swirly. As someone with curly hair I would have loved to try this hairstyle.

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They might have, if they ever indulged in making something like that after the initial arr hairs almost a decade or so ago, but they never did. It says lot the first time they are attempting this again, was through a contest. If hadn't been submitted it wouldn't have been thought of. And people have been asking for that ( and very long hair ) for years

I'm glad that the devs are still going to try to implement the hairstyle as it was originally intended, but at the same time, it's kind of ridiculous that the game has so few options for textured hair after all these years. I do think the devs have been putting more effort into diversity lately, but I really hope they actually commit to it long-term.

Somehow the new hair looks even worse in game than it did in the preview.

I truly can't believe we're getting that, and then three good hairs via the mogstation. lmao

It's so disgusting and stringy in-game, no wonder they quit and gave us a product that makes your wol look like they're finally balding from stress. "Technical limitations," they just don't know how.

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Originally Posted by slingbees

gave us a product that makes your wol look like they're finally balding from stress.

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It's more like the look of a costume wig that's starting to slip off and show the wearer's real hair underneath. I never did master the art of pinning my hair up properly for cosplaying, and wigs would start trying to escape like that, especially if they were a bit small or tight to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's more like the look of a costume wig that's starting to slip off and show the wearer's real hair underneath. I never did master the art of pinning my hair up properly for cosplaying, and wigs would start trying to escape like that, especially if they were a bit small or tight to begin with.

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Y'know what, you're right, or like a party city wig, yeah.

I have to confess that it looks really bad in game. I don't want to be mean to the person who worked on this.
But I guess he or she is selfware that the result does not look very appealing. Maybe a matter of time, I don't know.

But it's not only that the better hair is going to be an extra pay.
I also saw in the internet that there will be new glamour (Leisurewear), with a cute wool hat (Leisurewear Knit Cap) that finally doesn't cut Miqo ears off, like it used to be in the past.
But yeah, also just for extra pay if it's true what ffxivcollect.com says. I don't think that these are Yoshi's decisions tbh.

*edit:
The new cap from the pvp glamour cuts the ears off.

Personally my only problem with cut of miqo ears is that earings disappear and that the joy emote on male chars is set around the ears to wiggle and it looks really weird to use it when there are no ears.
The character then just strange wiggles arround. xD
But I know that lots of people are upset about the cutting off in general.

I'm glad they confirmed they realize this didn't hit the mark and they intend to keep trying, I just hope they follow through. You don't need a crazy amount of polygons, just need to get more creative with the texture.

Im still trying to get ahold of the hair on my side, but from what i’ve seen on other people and vids I have some comments:

- even tough is different, it looks significantly less flat in game. I can also see layering and the bumps on the top on the hair to try to give it some humph.

- I heard that the polygon count for the hair is double compared to the usual hairstyle. That, combined with the first point, I can see they did try!!!

- for the highlights, I feel like my image did not help. I feel like they cut off too harshly instead of it being softer. I think that’s my fault. They go well with hair who's colours are not too contrasted but look too hard and almost drawn on for example black hair with white highlights

I do have a graphical questions!
I’ve seen in other games sometimes sliders to make hair seem more curly by simply making the wave smaller. Could they have done something similar to give the appearance of curls?
Like, the texture would not be the same, but would it be a better cheat to make something similar while adding those planes of loose stands here and there to give it an appearance of fluffy?

(Extra note: i also want to learn incase i have to design something for others. Knowing limitations can help me design for others better)

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Originally Posted by fundabortion

hey yall! i appreciate this discussion so much, again SE letting down people of color at every opportunity. but stil... how do i get this hairstyle lol? any of u know where its at?

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Do we even know where we unlock this wet mop hairstyle?

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I can confirm it drops from treasure maps, alongside the novelty prank weapons.

IMO I've never agreed with the developer's philosophy of locking hairstyles as prestige items, specially in cases such as this. The final product isn't ideal, but even if it was, having to deal with RNG grind hell just to be able to have curls feels rather unfair.

I'm also posting here to voice my discontent. From what I've seen, a lot of people are upset because the original concept art makes it obvious, at least to western audiences, that it's supposed to be a black hairstyle with locks and non-flat textured hair. I can see that the development team tried to emulate this by upping the polygon count and I think that's good but there are three mistakes that I believe can easily be fixed to make the hairstyle look a bit closer to the design and better in general:

A) Change the highlights to be more of a gradient. The current highlights look nothing like the original concept art. There are several hairstyles already in the game that demonstrate that gradient highlights are possible. The Moenbryda hairstyle, for example. You could get a similar effect, or combine the two, by also making some few streaks of hair have a narrower or wider gradient. This has been done before with the Y'shtola haircut, for example.

B) Change the shape and appearance of the hairline. I know the artist didn't really specify what the hairline should look like but I think it could benefit from being less round and from having baby hairs.

C) Make new textures for afro-textured / kinky hair. Currently the only textured we have are for straight/flat hair, braids and the afro. None of them really work for what the artist was going for and I think the game as a whole can benefit in the long run from simply making a new type of hair texture for these kinds of hairstyles.

Besides these solutions, I think there are other points the team can improve upon that require more work like the re-meshing of the model. The parting in the hairstyle is currently too long, too centered and too visible. I don't think the hairstyle is voluminous enough. I don't think it's layered enough though I suspect bump mapping might help with that.

I really do hope that the team takes aside some time to fix some of these issues. It is currently extremely hard, and for some races even impossible, to make a good-looking black character.
I remember the Sims 4 team at Maxis has had similar issues in the past and they've teamed up with black creators, businesses and organizations to help with this issue. I'm not getting my hopes up but I hope Square Enix will do the same.

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Originally Posted by Jokiro

IMO I've never agreed with the developer's philosophy of locking hairstyles as prestige items, specially in cases such as this. The final product isn't ideal, but even if it was, having to deal with RNG grind hell just to be able to have curls feels rather unfair.

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Agree. Once they do manage to add proper curly hair it should be made default for everyone.

1st post btw

All i want to know is if Viera will ever get this hairstyle. I dress in very Japanese style glams. The Shishu gozen kimono being my favourite and tail clipping is outrageous on it, but the bun part of the Kanzashi only looks good with some hair, ESPECIALLY the hime cut. I just really want it on Viera, they're tall and pretty with white skin akin to Geisha. They added the princess curls for Viera which has a similar silhouette at least so i hope to god Viera will finally get the hime cut. For god sake, MALE ROEGADYN HAVE IT!

https://i.imgur.com/dnSJNYi.png
https://i.imgur.com/f5UL90L.png
friend and I had gil to burn

new hair is Bad™ both in that it's nothing like the winning design but also that its legit terrible on its own merits lmao

Thanks for the screenshots! Yeah, it looks greasy. I might buy it down the road for completionist's sake, but even that's debatable. What a letdown.

What's going on with the hairline peeking between the part on the forehead???
The hair looks loose and heavy enough that it wouldn't be able to support a cowlick like that.

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Originally Posted by ronibosch

Thanks for the screenshots! Yeah, it looks greasy. I might buy it down the road for completionist's sake, but even that's debatable. What a letdown.

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Yeah the shading on it is so flat that it does ending up looking like a grease ball

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Originally Posted by Roda

What's going on with the hairline peeking between the part on the forehead???
The hair looks loose and heavy enough that it wouldn't be able to support a cowlick like that.

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The hairline makes it look like the hair is falling off our heads more than growing out of them. Its very strange cause if you dropped the hair lower on the head (no visible hairline) it'd work a lot better, like, it'd still have the shading issues but would possibly work in darker colors (with less drastic highlights than my viera)

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Originally Posted by ilikeyoshi

I also wanted to add screenshots of very old highlander hairstyles that showcase sufficient curls in-game, provided by PudDraws on Bluesky.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsi...yqbqhq4hi@jpeghttps://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsi...mxi5srlia@jpeg

The curls here are mostly achieved with a flat 3D model (were you to turn these hairstyles at the right angle in game, you'd see the curly strands 'disappear', because it's basically got the 3D shape of a piece of paper) and well-articulated normal texture. Several straight-haired styles in the game have lots of these features too, and much of the fluffiness of some shorter hairstyles is achieved through that same "flat 3D model with detailed normal" method. The bulk of the hair would be, without its textures, just a weird hair-shaped blob, and the normal would again add the curls and depth. Again, this is how all the hair is designed already: look at any model and you'll notice that, aside from some strands and such, the bulk of the hair is one 3D hunk, and it's the textures that make it appear more like a full head of hair.

Ultimately, making a faithful translation of the original entry winner's hairstyle would be completely within their ability, and the fact they thus chose not to is upsetting. I won't speculate on their reasoning, but I will say this: We do not need more hairstyles that can realistically be worn by straight-haired or vaguely wavy-haired people. We have tons of those, and those people can MORE than afford to be left out of a few hairstyles that black and brown people would be able to realistically and EASILY wear. The fact is, making a straight-haired or wavy-haired WoL is easy in this game, we have tons of options for this. What we DON'T have are almost ANY options for curly or textured hair, and that makes it really hard for anyone to make a WoL who is black, brown, or even just someone with very curly hair. Instead, these people have to compromise with hairstyles ill-suited to their visions, and that's unfortunately a reality in SO many games that pride themselves on letting the player design their very own character.

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Thank you for providing the screenshots, and your description. I've been bringing up the female highlander hair but it's even better having the actual visuals

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Originally Posted by Rokke

[...]new hair is Bad™ both in that it's nothing like the winning design but also that its legit terrible on its own merits lmao

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Damn they're Shinji Matou'd lmao.

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Originally Posted by Madqueenmomo

I do have a graphical questions!
I’ve seen in other games sometimes sliders to make hair seem more curly by simply making the wave smaller. Could they have done something similar to give the appearance of curls?
Like, the texture would not be the same, but would it be a better cheat to make something similar while adding those planes of loose stands here and there to give it an appearance of fluffy?

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The way this is done is through a shader that distorts how the original texture is displayed (something like the Wave filter in Photoshop, kinda), but this is more of an extra customization feature than anything. You can draw the curls as you want them to be in the original texture and get a much better result texture-wise.
In my very personal opinion, the feature you're talking about is very all flash no substance, "hey look you can make your hair wavy!!!" but it looks like hair crimping more than anything, or like, yeah, straight hair passed through a Wave filter... which it is...

I think the challenge of this hairstyle is that there is no reference for this type of hair within FFXIV's art style yet, so it's difficult to find a balance between showing the right amount of volume, with the right curls, while working within the technical constraints of an MMO and their existing shaders.
If you take a look at games like the Sims 4, the way they design hair is like one big blob that is being "sculpted" into curls, which works for them because all their hairstyles kinda follow that direction, and the character design is also very, uh... "sculpture-like" for lack of a better word.
But FFXIV's art style is more the signature FF style that is between anime and semi-real (but very much based on Japanese/East Asian faces and hair), and so most hairstyles are designed as simple volumes of straight or wavy hair with spiky hair strands because that's what... anime hair has always looked like. Even when you look at anime in general, they haven't really nailed down how to depict curly hair yet without going straight for the afro (yes there are exceptions), unless they go for a very stylized art direction.

Probably the best way to render this kind of hair would be something like Campo Santo's In the Valley of Gods which is a combination of a blob to give volume and a lot of hair strands on top to give it texture, but yeah, because of the technical constraints of an MMO, I'm not sure how doable this is.
(do note that in that blog post, the curls are directly drawn into the texture, so this also answers your question)
The hairstyle they use also has bigger "rolls" of hair which makes it easier to split into separate volumes compared to what you've designed, which is more uh... consistent in its volume, so it's a little more difficult to simplify the shape.
The sections you drew in your entry are definitely helpful to understand the overall volume and would probably help with a high polygon sculpt, but yeah for MMO hair I don't know what would be the best way to go about it...

That being said, I'm very curious to see what the wireframe and setup of curly hair looks like in Guild Wars 2, because I think their approach would probably be the closest to what would look good in FFXIV.

It's a limitation of the engine, fine whips and minute hair detail aren't really in the game, just spikes and lines of of certain size (which generally look good compared to some other games). To add tiny coils of hair in that pattern, it'd probably be the 1000 polygon plant pot all over again lol. Maybe they'll be able to add it in future.

I know I'm in the minority but I absolutely love it on my girl. It definitely only works for certain faces/races, etc so I know I am a rare like for this. But it fits her fun, spunky personality really well.


https://i.imgur.com/OtBCxJ6.jpeg

It does look very good on your character! Those pink highlights also do something to the shape that makes it feel more harmonic.

So, I finally got my hands on the hairstyle. It's still a pretty noticeable sloppy work but it's not as bad in-game IMO, at least on my Roe. It definitely looks better with a hat on, though. Lighting makes a huge difference, too. Overall I rate it 4/10-7/10 depending on character model and lighting, solid 7/10 with a hat on. Hopefully the devs will take the criticism to heart and do better next time.

Hat:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a1828a9e03710&

No Hat:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...88b1725d26150&

I think it looks cute. Less fluffy than the original maybe.
I However really wish that when they release hairs that they can release 2 at the time, one short and one long. Everyone happy.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

https://i.imgur.com/dnSJNYi.png
https://i.imgur.com/f5UL90L.png
friend and I had gil to burn

new hair is Bad™ both in that it's nothing like the winning design but also that its legit terrible on its own merits lmao

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It would have been better to not release it at all....