[Suggestion] Fashion/Vanity Slots.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

^^^ well, more gear variety will help with that.

With limited gear and vanity system, people will just flock to the most stylish gear for their vanity slots and you have the exact same problem.

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This is a big point I think. SE is working on other things right now. When they get the opporutnity like in FF11 we will get a lot of gear choices without a vanity system.

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Originally Posted by Reika

So you will assume they have double melded felt gaskins because they are wearing felt gaskins, but will not assume they ware wearing felt gaskins when a robe is completely covering their pants?

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Why would I assume a BLM has anything good if they appear to be in full AF.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

^^^ well, more gear variety will help with that.

With limited gear and vanity system, people will just flock to the most stylish gear for their vanity slots and you have the exact same problem.

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Exactly. In MMOs even with "endless dye" systems you still have plenty of duplicates because it's what looks nice.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

This is a big point I think. SE is working on other things right now. When they get the opporutnity like in FF11 we will get a lot of gear choices without a vanity system.



Why would I assume a BLM has anything good if they appear to be in full AF.

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You would still have to check. you wouldn't know the blm was is full af unless you checked. You cant always see a persons helm, and you cant always see a persons pants. You wont even be able to tell if they are wearing the right belt anymore in ARR, or a belt at all. you wont know what jewlery they have unless you check them either.

BLM could have AF robe, and the best pants in the game, or Best robe in the game, and AF pants. You wouldnt know, unless you checked.

People WILL still check people with or without vanity system or a toggle for it.

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Originally Posted by Reika

You would still have to check. you wouldn't know the blm was is full af unless you checked. You cant always see a persons helm, and you cant always see a persons pants. You wont even be able to tell if they are wearing the right belt anymore in ARR. you wont know what jewlery they have unless you check them either.

People WILL still check people with or without vanity system or a toggle for it.

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Of course there will still be some checking - but I dont want to feel the need to check just because I see AF and now I dont know if that means way worse or way better.

If I see them wearing heavy darklight I dont need to check. And you can do general materia assumptions safely - of course it isnt always going to be the right guess but much more likely then vanity.

Anyway "not having to check equipment" is only one of the few reasons I mentioned.

So the only reason against a toggle is "I don't want you see me in my real gear" so actually there is no argument against it...

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

So the only reason against a toggle is "I don't want you see me in my real gear" so actually there is no argument against it...

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They don't know that's what they are saying. lol

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

So the only reason against a toggle is "I don't want you see me in my real gear" so actually there is no argument against it...

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Originally Posted by Shougun

They don't want to admit that's what they are saying. lol

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fixed it~

/10

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

So the only reason against a toggle is "I don't want you see me in my real gear" so actually there is no argument against it...

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"I don't want to check people" is the only real argument for it lol. Class/Job/Lvl restrictions and no seasonal items are already ok with just about everyone. now it is only "I dont want to check people"

so it is "I am to lazy to check people" VS "I dont want people to see my real gear"

And yea I dont want people to see my real gear. For one, I am one of those people that looks at their character during character creation and tries to actually make it look good. Thus, I always have my helm hidden, because I think helms defeat the purpose of a well worked on character. I didn't chose this particular haircolor and style to have it covered up with a helm, or work on these facial features to cover it up with a mask. Not one of the people who chooses a preset and name and goes with it.

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Originally Posted by Onisake

Coming back in a bit late. I won't reply to your reply to my post. simply because other people have already done that and there's no need to beat the dead horse.

However vanity slots ADD to cohesion/realism/immersion not take away from it. you're thinking of one, very bad, example where everyone will run around in a Yukata. this won't happen. end of story. most people will be reasonable. and only a few people will feel the need to run around in a Yukata.

Doing dungeons, completing quests, getting new gear, is really to do one thing: improve our power. make ourselves stronger. why you think this absolutely must be tied to the specific gear dropped there is your personal issue.

With a vanity slot system it goes from: my power improves from me doing more difficult content. my power increases because I'm stronger through adversity.

without a vanity system it's more like: I did difficult content and all my power is based solely on this piece of armor I found in there. While this is true in the coding, it kills immersion for me. as my character develops my power should be in my accomplishments. not in what i'm wearing. Vanity slots allow me to keep that mindset. otherwise it doesn't feel like i'm stronger. It's just my gear.

As I am adventuring I learn new things. I explore. I gain power. When you see Manga, Anime, etc. as the heroes progress they don't always change their gear as they get stronger. they gain new abilities, new experiences, but they are able to maintain an iconic look. and until recently it was almost unheard of that when you change your armor your appearance changes. (See every other FF game and most other jrpgs) weapon appearance changed. and this makes sense. Vanity slots for weapons are a bit of a grey area for me personally. our weapon/tool is who/what we are in game. we know what class someone is from what they are wielding. (Hey, that guy has a spear. he's probably a DRG).

I would like to do the same. I would like to feel my power is being augmented by completing content and I can look however I wish. vs. My power comes solely from what i'm wearing. and looking like a rodeo clown in a hodge-podge of mis-matched gear that doesn't seem to fit well together is the best way to go into battle.

Not to mention that anyone who has ever actually worn armor (for me personally this is Kyudo and Kendo) for extended periods of time knows the more you use that armor the more you become familiar with the weight, balance, etc. of that armor. It's not like slipping on a new shirt. the same is true of weapons. so it actually makes more sense to NOT be constantly changing your armor. because you're constantly having to break it in. the same is true for weapons. Whenever I borrow someone else's Bow it feels off. it doesn't have the balance my bow has, the same weight, pull, etc.

For me, How I would use vanity slots is i would likely find one look I like. and not update it often. largely because that's how my brain works. but I understand some people will want to change their look every week. all that says to me is: crafters make more money. because people are buying gear for both stats AND looks.

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Originally Posted by Reika

"I don't want to check people" is the only real argument for it lol. Class/Job/Lvl restrictions and no seasonal items are already ok with just about everyone. now it is only "I dont want to check people"

so it is "I am to lazy to check people" VS "I dont want people to see my real gear"

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You really fail to read if that's all you came up with.

Also crafters will make LESS money.

You will have even less reason to update your "main" stat items. The horrible materia system as it is will suffer. Though I hope they scrap the system so bad anyways (materia as it is now).

yea, I just summarized it all in 1 vs 2

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Wouldnt be confused, just think you are crazy :cool:. There is no red wizard.

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Final Fantasy 1, Red Mage can become a red wizard, though my title has no relation to the game. I was excited to see it though when I found out it can become one. So yes they do exist in the FF world.

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Originally Posted by Reika

"I don't want to check people" is the only real argument for it lol. Class/Job/Lvl restrictions and no seasonal items are already ok with just about everyone. now it is only "I dont want to check people"

so it is "I am to lazy to check people" VS "I dont want people to see my real gear"

And yea I dont want people to see my real gear. For one, I am one of those people that looks at their character during character creation and tries to actually make it look good. Thus, I always have my helm hidden, because I think helms defeat the purpose of a well worked on character. I didn't chose this particular haircolor and style to have it covered up with a helm, or work on these facial features to cover it up with a mask. Not one of the people who chooses a preset and name and goes with it.

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It's fine if you choose to see you like you want, but everyone else should habe the right to choose if they want to see all the vanity gear or not. I prefer to see ppl in what the really wear instead of some stuff they think it might look cool...

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Final Fantasy 1, Red Mage can become a red wizard, though my title has no relation to the game. I was excited to see it though when I found out it can become one. So yes they do exist in the FF world.

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They arent in FFXIV, still crazy :D.

But you did teach me something about FF1.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

You really fail to read if that's all you came up with.

Also crafters will make LESS money.

You will have even less reason to update your "main" stat items. The horrible materia system as it is will suffer. Though I hope they scrap the system so bad anyways (materia as it is now).

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You cant be serious? neither of those are true. First one is absolutely false, second is just your fear.

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Originally Posted by Reika

You cant be serious? neither of those are true. First one is absolutely false, second is just your fear.

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I think its quite possible. I think I should have done a self possessive on the opinion though (not something I "know"). But I do know that items that had lesser stats but better looks will no longer be melded - that will be a loss in those crafts. Whether there is a difference from now where people buy some gears for looks with melds and others without and with vanity where you just manage one set - maybe too many variables for me to claim either way.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I am one of those people that looks at their character during character creation and tries to actually make it look good. Thus, I always have my helm hidden, because I think helms defeat the purpose of a well worked on character. I didn't chose this particular haircolor and style to have it covered up with a helm, or work on these facial features to cover it up with a mask. Not one of the people who chooses a preset and name and goes with it.

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Oddly enough, we have very similar approaches to our characters in the game.

I spent a tremendous amount of time carefully going through options to make my character exactly as I wanted it (given what we had to work with).

I carry several sets of gear for just for vanity purposes and I have macros for changing them out (will have gearsets in ARR).

So why on earth would I ever be opposed to vanity slots??

Because, I value my gear... I don't want to see the integrity of my gear diminished by turning it into a magical hologram.
Because I want form to follow function. I want gear to have a real purpose and unity. I want the haubergeon I craft to be something in the game, not just a list of stats, or a mere coat of paint for other stats.

And more than anything, I want the game to feel authentic.

When you can't trust what you see, immersion, and the fantasy experience take a hit-- Its fantasy game, true... but hologram clothes with no reasonable lore explanation is just a bridge to far... it seriously diminishes the game.

When the game becomes diminished, so does my character that I spent so much time creating, leveling and getting the proper gear for. My character loses authenticity because the world in which she lives has lost authenticity.

Its funny that we arrived in such different places considering our fundamental perspective on our chars is so similar.

I hope you get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

Well, just like with 'Omg I cant tell if people are the right class with their weapons hidden', without a toggle, seeing the gear people want you to see, people will get over it and just play the game. No one is EVER all omg over my helm being hidden. its a non-issue.

If the party just cant go the same because your tank doesn't look lvl50.... well....

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

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Still, the Dev's have said they don't want a Vanity system, and I agree, so this thread is moot.

You guys are better off asking for (or making) a client-side, dat-swap add-on if you hate looking at your own gear so much.

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Just ask for a client-side dat-swap Zantet ;x Probably better off for it.

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Because, I value my gear... I don't want to see the integrity of my gear diminished by turning it into a magical hologram.
Because I want form to follow function. I want gear to have a real purpose and unity. I want the haubergeon I craft to be something in the game, not just a list of stats, or a mere coat of paint for other stats.

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This is an incredibly good point against a vanity system. Being able to make steel chainmail look like leather is actually pretty dumb. I'd really rather not see the sort of thing in this game.

Vanity system = yes please. Toggle = No. If I create my character to be seen wearing X, I want my character to be seen wearing X. Don't like it, simply don't invite me to your parties, after all its just an aesthetic change.

SE won't be stupid with their implementation, after all they have already said they prefer people to can be easily identified by their class/job, so their will be limitations of course if added, such as having gear class/job/race specific and I'm pretty sure the use of event items would be prohibited as well as those are general and can be worn by anyone.

Those who are whining over someone making a chainmail look like leather... that sounds like a personal problem. But as I said, don't like it, simply ignore them and don't add them.

I cannot understand why people would want less customization options in this day and age, when in mmos nearly everyone pretty much looks the same by end game.

Actually it is ppl whining about the possibility to toggle it off. Actually its not even your buisness how i choose to see the ppl. Just cause you can't hide your gear for ppl who don't want it...

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

Vanity system = yes please. Toggle = No. If I create my character to be seen wearing X, I want my character to be seen wearing X. Don't like it, simply don't invite me to your parties, after all its just an aesthetic change.

SE won't be stupid with their implementation, after all they have already said they prefer people to can be easily identified by their class/job, so their will be limitations of course if added, such as having gear class/job/race specific and I'm pretty sure the use of event items would be prohibited as well as those are general and can be worn by anyone.

Those who are whining over someone making a chainmail look like leather... that sounds like a personal problem. But as I said, don't like it, simply ignore them and don't add them.

I cannot understand why people would want less customization options in this day and age, when in mmos nearly everyone pretty much looks the same by end game.

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Do you not know your own logic? What do you think we want? Aesthetic btw goes beyond just graphics. Your "wear what im not wearing" idea is anti aesthetic to me. You arent wearing chain so why should you get chain stats. You shouldn't.

So .. lets just make your character invisible as a just aesthetic deal and call it good. And if you dont like it, well its ok because you cant see yourself.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Do you not know your own logic? What do you think we want aesthetic btw goes beyond just graphics. Your "wear what im not wearing" idea is anti aesthetic to me.

So .. lets just make your character invisible as a just aesthetic deal and call it good. And if you dont like it, well its ok because you cant see yourself.

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Nah, you are just being stupid now.

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

Nah, you are just being stupid now.

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Nah, you are just being stupid now.

I can play that game too.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Nah, you are just being stupid now.

I can play that game too.

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oh em ge... L...o...l...

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

oh em ge... L...o...l...

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Just to help you along in the future usage of the word "aesthetic" it means concerned with beauty / the appreciation of beauty. I cant appreciate what you have on when its NOT what you have on. There is a huge logical disconnect created by the vanity system. So rather then forcing me to deal with your logical inconsistencies how bout you just give up a toggle button - this isnt even something Yoshi wanted to add.

You enjoy how you look and I can actually stay connected to the game.

Hell give em a toggle whats it hurt, everybody wins at that point. You wont know whether a random person has it toggled or not so they dont have to see something they dont want to see, and you dont have to see what you dont want to see. Win/Win, Im just glad I personally don't have to look at my guy in mismatched gear. TO ME that is immersion breaking. You wouldnt see people going in to battle in mismatched gear, Armor is made in sets and I believe it adds to my immersion if my character flows, so lets all just win. No need to argue past this point...

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Just to help you along in the future usage of the word "aesthetic" it means concerned with beauty / the appreciation of beauty. I cant appreciate what you have on when its NOT what you have on. There is a huge logical disconnect created by the vanity system. So rather then forcing me to deal with your logical inconsistencies how bout you just give up a toggle button - this isnt even something Yoshi wanted to add.

You enjoy how you look and I can actually stay connected to the game.

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I'm pretty sure it was said the vanity system is under consideration for after release. So it seems their is enough people who in fact want a vanity system.

I know aesthetic means concerned with beauty or appreciation of beauty... It isn't a logical disconnect if I believe using another set of gear as my outward appearance is much more appealing and being considered beautiful, after all beauty is subjective. So I don't get what you are trying to get at... at all.

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

I'm pretty sure it was said the vanity system is under consideration for after release. So it seems their is enough people who in fact want a vanity system.

I know aesthetic means concerned with beauty or appreciation of beauty... It isn't a logical disconnect if I believe using another set of gear as my outward appearance is much more appealing and being considered beautiful. So I don't get what you are trying to get at... at all.

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OK tell you what. Put on a red shirt, call it brown. And go see what the bulls think. Logical. Disconnect.

You cant wear what you are not wearing.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

OK tell you what. Put on a red shirt, call it brown. And go see what the bulls think. Logical. Disconnect.

You cant wear what you are not wearing.

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Unless its in a video game.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

OK tell you what. Put on a red shirt, call it brown. And go see what the bulls think. Logical. Disconnect.

You cant wear what you are not wearing.

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Real shirts don't have stats. IRL metal thongs and felt aren't optimal. Just sayin.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Unless its in a video game.

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Video games still follow logical rules in order to be grounded (literally. . as well).

Some people dont care about grounding - but I do.

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Originally Posted by Gardthorne

Real shirts don't have stats. IRL metal thongs and felt aren't optimal. Just sayin.

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Real shirts have stats. I prefer cotton over wool it makes me itch, there is a stat for you. Some burn easier then others, you will want that stat if you were to run into a fire.

Metal thongs are silly - metal vest maybe not so much aganist swords. Metal plated or hard leather subligar is not, protects the good stuff (if you are trying to refer to that).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

OK tell you what. Put on a red shirt, call it brown. And go see what the bulls think. Logical. Disconnect.

You cant wear what you are not wearing.

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Actually no... what I would do is change my red shirt to look brown, and thus it would now look like a brown shirt. But you know what? It doesn't change the brand of the shirt.

And in this example the brand would be its stats lol.

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

Actually no... what I would do is change my red shirt to look brown, and thus it would now look like a brown shirt. But you know what? It doesn't change the brand of the shirt.

And in this example the brand would be its stats lol.

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But the shirt isnt red anymore. So if a red shirt does something like agro +1 , you shouldnt get that with a brown shirt.

So actually no, you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Video games still follow logical rules in order to be grounded (literally. . as well).

Some people dont care about grounding - but I do.

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You've never played an RPG where the cast of characters always wear the same thing no matter what they have equipped? That was their look, it stayed no matter what you put on, so you could feel free to equip the strongest of items without uglifing the characters.

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

Vanity system = yes please. Toggle = No. If I create my character to be seen wearing X, I want my character to be seen wearing X. Don't like it, simply don't invite me to your parties

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So in other words, people toggling off your appearance doesn't affect your gameplay at all.

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Originally Posted by Reika

You've never played an RPG where the cast of characters always wear the same thing no matter what they have equipped? That was their look, it stayed no matter what you put on, so you could feel free to equip the strongest of items without uglifing the characters.

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Lack of finance and ability. Games that do that now either do it as a tip of the hat to the classics or dont have enough funds.

"equipping uber plate mail of heaviness" and still wearing a cloth shirt is stupid. But exceptions were made because it was unreasonable to expect a fresh model for every character.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

But the shirt isnt red anymore. So if a red shirt does something like agro +1 , you shouldnt get that with a brown shirt.

So actually no, you are wrong.

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Doesn't matter if the shirt isn't red anymore, I changed its color to a brown shirt as that's what I feel comfortable in wearing and its appealing to me, and this is the color I want people to associate me with as thats the color I like. Why must I wear the color red if I do not like the color?

Also for someone who believes aesthetics matter, stats of the gear shouldn't matter to begin with.

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

Doesn't matter if the shirt isn't red anymore, I changed its color to a brown shirt as that's what I feel comfortable in wearing and its appealing to me. Why should I suffer in wearing red if I do not like the color red?

Also for someone who believes aesthetics matter, stats of the gear shouldn't matter to begin with.

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No a brown shirt is different then a red shirt. It is phsyically different. When you dye a shirt you are physicall manipulating the properties of the shirt. It will never EVER be the same shirt again. Even if you dye it back. But that is really technical speaking.

Perhaps we should be more like what the vanity says. You equip a white shirt but you like red leather more. So you use red leather model. But you have a white shirt on. ... White cloth shirt IS NOT in anyway a leather quality.

Its like saying I got a water armor on but my model is fire armor. Lol Wtf?

Aesthetics matter - if it looks heavy and sturdy - it should probably have great defense.

In general this is followed - though there is a level aspect to the items as well "high level cloth has way more defense then a low level chain mail". Level to level the logic is maintained at least.