I am ok with this, ONLY, if the other damn actions did not lock your movement.
I am ok with this, ONLY, if the other damn actions did not lock your movement.
That's another thing that's been asked for quite some time, and I'm sure in due time the majority of them if not all will receive the same treatment the Active/Passive mode thing did, i.e. allowing us to perform it while moving, even if with a small slowdown.
Doubt this will happen before 2.0 tho
....Blizzard alone is notorious for balancing their MMO and online games towards PvP play. If you try to focus on PvE in WoW after a PvP based updated, do you not notice how PvE gets extremely unbalanced in the process? So you did kind of prove her point that MMOs with strong PvP the balance is always tipped in favor of it rather than PvE, so people who enjoy PvE gets to enjoy shitty PvE content that's extremely unbalanced while they sit around trying to perfect PvP, something you may not care for.
It is much more difficult to balance both PvP and PvE at the same time (=them using the same system) than balancing them separately.
I agree, this is why separating those 2 parts is the only way i see to not break the balance between those 2 sides of the game.Quote:
MMO balance is always tipped towards PvP and not everyone wants to do PvP if they want to enjoy the game.
"Notorious" according to who exactely? Are you trying to express and share your own opinion? That's fine, I disagree but respect your opinion.
Or are you trying to say that's a commonly shared opinion everywhere and that everybody would say the same? Because in that case I would have to disagree again.
Btw, if it helps you in any way, I've been playing (and still play) WoW 'till patch 1.6 (altough I played a bit of beta too).
The fact they're not "good" is debateable but I could very easily agree with that, at least to a certain extent.
But saying that is very different from saying "PVE experience gets ruined because all Blizzard cares for is balancing things for PVP consequentially breaking it for PVE".
That would be a very shortsighted opinion coming from someone who mainly cared for PVP, got burned, and never really cared that much to play PVE at high levels.
Agreed, specifically in reference to Ifrit (although this would probably apply to other similar instanced battles in the future) it would make it nigh impossible to Cure or Nuke on a consistent basis where your constantly moving about to avoid Eruptions and the occasional Plume without taking serious risks. Taking into consideration of coming to a full stop, lag compensation between the client and the server, beginning animation lock, ending animation lock, and the spells cast time it likely would take a few more seconds to cast each spell successfully. That's not considering the time lost when a spell is cancelled from premature casting due to client/server lag, and the potential dangers animation lock already poses once a spell gets past the point of no return. I might be just over-analyzing though.
Im all for movemenet interrupting spellcasting, that being said I agree with Jinrya-Geki and hope that PVP doesn't destroy this games PVE balance like it does in other games.
I'm not a fan of spell casting being interupted by monsters though, espeically if its going to be 100%.
Reading his post most of it is regarding PVP though, it definately comes across that the decision was made based mostly with that in mind if you ask me. (perhaps you interpreted it differently though)Quote:
PvP issues did not influence his decision on how solo and party playstyles will work.
I don't like this. Keep it the same; just fix it so we can actually cancel spells when necessary. As it stands even if moving cancelled a spell I bet we would still be in animation lock because we didn't move "early" enough to cancel the spell. If I can talk on the phone and jog at the same time I should be able to use magic and run at the same time as well. Maybe they should have just increased cast time while moving?
That "issue" can be solved by simply making you cancel a cast once you disengage or press the Esc/cancel button once, instead of having to press the same skill again as it is now, which would make things more intuitive, at least from my perspective.
So yes, other than that, his only reason is PvP.
Movement cancelling spells won't magically solve that problem, you will still be able to nuke them, move, nuke again, never getting hit if both you and your tank can balance the enmity. Oh wait, that sounds exactly like what he is describing!
In fact, you don't even HAVE to move! Just don't nuke too hard. I don't see the issue or the "abuse" of game mechanics.
So I guess a bunch of RDM in FFXI were exploiting the game and should have been banned. Should ban BLM too in that while you are at it. They can outrun monsters too. So are we supposed to sit and let a monster kill us? I don't understand. Since when has kiting a monster been "exploiting"?
The example you stated is a non-existent reason. Kiting (even has a name) is a perfectly acceptable form of strategy... unless you are trying to lock people down to a certain style of play. Namely tank, DD, healer (holy trinity). Which I gather is what he is doing.
Which I take to mean Yoshi-P is making a game fundamentally like any other. He's not making something that would stand out from the rest. Final Fantasy, a game series that has always stood out from the rest in my eyes. Yes, I expected more. I expected a game that breaks norms, not one that glosses over what has already been done. Just because the original FFXIV didn't pull it together enough, doesn't mean the whole thing was bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi-P
Talking specifically about the change... the last thing I want, is to be pigeonholed into a specific style of play. I don't want to have my hand held, or be told to play my mage this way because that's how it's designed, or to have the developers design of the classes and the game hampered by PvP. I want the freedom to come up with innovative ways to win a battle. The original game had too much freedom I guess. So instead we are doing a 180? I don't believe it was necessary.
I came to this game looking for something different, so yes, I am dissapointed.
That is my feelings, I'm sorry they are a little strong right now.
The un-intended playstyle being making use of the range of a ranged class? Come on! If a ranged class isn't allowed to kite then why have ranged classes at all?
Also, with how the current game behaves, you can be miles away and still get hit by a melee attack. Just try getting one of the harder nodes and you'll see what i mean. I don't see them fixing that, so the issue of ranged classes never getting hit won't arise.
List all the MMO's that allow casting while running.
And started with someone's QQing. The game was a fail because people were actually playing it. You have not played with this yet on this game, nor have you played it with 2.0 combat and adjustments.
There is differences between opinions and whining, and all I see is whining lately with this one topic. Did you not read his long post? I'm pretty sure it's set in stone with all that he wrote.
There's one thing that I want to put there, Allods Online. Yea yea F2P sucks, but they actually have a working combat system with Stamina and casting while running, one that FFXIV should have at the beginning, and could had changed into.
Then Anarchy Online, that one is older even than FFXI. NT kite ftw.
If you guys read the road map you would know pvp is gonna have its own set of skills so it wont mess with PvE.....
The first one i can think about is aion, you wasn't actually casting, but you had instant spells with quite long animations and no animation lock. Wich isn't much different from casting while moving with animation lock.
I'm not defending the first version here, but when the QQ started the average player's level was 10... do you really think they knew everything about Tanaka's vision? The main flaw of FFXIV was that it was released way too soon (except for some server and engine issues), as far as we know when Tanaka was done with his development process the game might have been awsome. But that's OT.
Actually I didn't see any whining here, just valid discussions with pros and cons from both sides. I myself didn't say it's a bad idea per se, just asked for clarifications reguarding the whole combat flow.
The only QQ I read in this topic are like "wtf shut up already and let them do whatever they want, your opinion is bs."
You cannot currently kite and deal damage fluidly, as you have to stop and actually cast the spell, leaving yourself easily open to be caught up to and hit. Change nothing about that, and it would work fine. I'm sure other ways can be thought of to offset it.
This change primarily has to do with PvP, secondarily with making more "defined" party roles. I object to both reasons.
If it doesn't matter to you, then you really have no reason to argue.
/cheer Yoshida-san
EQOA, Age of Conan, DCU, WoW, Cabal.
Those are the MMOs that I have played where you can move and cast.
Get rid of animation lock, and allow casting while moving, at least SOME spells. The end. Anything less is going to result in a sub par game compared to other games where you party + move.
WoW didn't have spell interrupt it had spell push back so standing still wasn't as bad as it is in this game and the instant cast spells didn't stop you from moving.
You made that post while I was making the other, so no, I did not read it. Your posts come across as extremely rude, so believe it or not I am not going out of my way to read them.
I can't say I'd personally want the "animation lock" taken out either. I find timing them part of the play. But I can see why it would be lucrative to others, and it's not a big deal to me. In any case, it still wouldn't matter, because as I said, you can find other ways to keep things in check.
I have never argued this point.Quote:
Doesn't matter, he's chosen this
Which is a classic PR tactic. Deflect the controversial with something less controversial. PvP affecting PvE was a pretty big and sore point made when PvP was first announced. I should know, I was part of the "discussion." :)Quote:
Funny how he started off with "Image of Casters for Party Play" in big bold writing and then "Image of Casters for Party Play" yet didn't even make a similar header for "Image of Casters for PvP". Yet somehow that's the main reason for this change? And he made those big headers for the secondary reasons? Absolutely fascinating how you know so much about Yoshida's inner thought process, apparently even more than he does!
I don't pretend to know Yoshi-P's mind, but I know he is in a leadership position, and must act accordingly. I also know better than to take PR at face value. Whether you believe me or not, my reading comprehension is actually pretty good.
Ok then, but you're making this a bigger issue than I ever would have made of it.Quote:
I object to people bringing out nonsense saying somehow this change is the result of PvP first and foremost. Explain how that is when he's given examples for solo and party play where the same problem, running while casting, will cause issues in the future. I would like to hear how those two points he brought up aren't valid, and somehow the PvP reason is the main reason for this change.
I am not, nor was I ever, arguing whether or not it will cause issues in his envisioned future. I stated that the only reason it would cause balance issues for PvE is if he is trying to, and I quote, lock people down to a certain style of play. PvP cannot have casting movement (boy can I imagine the balance issues). PvE can have casting movement, like it does now, it merely need be designed to do so. Therefore, it's for PvP, and secondarily for "defined" party roles.
From his article I gather that he is balancing FFXIV in a very traditional, bland, boring way (imo). I do not want traditional, tank and spank, holy trinity style play. I would love to heal a mage kiting for tank. I do currently love doing some DD while healing, and always have since my first days of playing mmos. You think balance, I think walls. I want to play outside the box. That is what the original FFXIV had going for it, and I liked it.
You can keep arguing with me if you like, but treating me like I am a baseless idiot who doesn't know how to read or her own mind isn't going make me sympathetic to hear your thoughts on the subject. You seem to want me to think Yoshi-P is right, when I have never argued whether he was right or wrong, just how his latest revealed direction goes against what I want to see in the game in a big way.
To everyone else out there, I'm sorry I'm repeating myself. Here have some popcorn.
/popcorn