Lets nerf WAR :D

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

Took Paladin into Void Ark, could tell literally no difference at all minus an extremely minimal DPS gain. Enmity generation for Shield Swipe is still lackluster in content where it's supposedly "such a great change."

I am better off ignoring the proc in favor of more quickly starting my aggro combo all over again since the combo potency and enmity from Fast Blade to Rage of Halone greatly outweighs that of an ability that's on a 15 second cooldown. This will allow me to drop Shield Oath more soon. The change was unneeded, has made us weaker in content unjustifiably, and is very much ONLY a sidestep to the left and not a step forward.

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You would ignore an ability that is off the global cooldown in order to use skills on the global cooldown more quickly?

I feel like you're missing something here.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

You would ignore an ability that is off the global cooldown in order to use skills on the global cooldown more quickly?

I feel like you're missing something here.

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Tell me I'm the one missing something when I'm actually at level 60.....the only reason you'll ever even want to use Shield Swipe is for increased DPS and you can only maximize what piss poor gain it gives you in Sword Oath. It's enmity generation is dog shit and even more so now that it has reduced potency. It does not matter for me to use it in Shield Oath as it does not provide me with enough aggro generation. Don't take my word for it....actually, I don't even know why I'm telling you this as you obviously won't. You're one of those people squawking that Paladin is "fine" and this is just a bonus. Let the numbers the other people in this forum will post show whether or not I'm a moron, let the numbers FF Logs will record show whether or not I'm out of touch with how to employ a skill changed solely for the benefit of increased DPS.

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

Tell me I'm the one missing something when I'm actually at level 60.....

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You don't really have to patronize her when saying something stupid as "Ignoring the proc for an oGCD skill" when you CLEARLY have the time to use it between GCD skills without losing anything...In fact, that's exactly the point of the new Shield Swipe.

PLD is not "fine" but you can't argue that the new Shield Swipe is definitely a DPS increase over the old Shield Swipe, albeit a very small one.

Off global cool down isn't worth pushing the button? What exactly is it you are giving up? Is there an animation lock that makes it not worth pushing?

The point about it only being worth it in sword oath is confusing to me as well. Sword oath boosts auto attack potency. While shield oath reduces all damage saying pushing a free 150 potency ogcd button because it's 20% less effective would apply to all skills.

Am I missing something? Not being a 60 pld and all?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

You don't really have to patronize her when saying something stupid as "Ignoring the proc for an oGCD skill" when you CLEARLY have the time to use it between GCD skills without losing anything...In fact, that's exactly the point of the new Shield Swipe.

PLD is not "fine" but you can't argue that the new Shield Swipe is definitely a DPS increase over the old Shield Swipe, albeit a very small one.

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I'm not saying that it it's a DPS loss anymore. I'm saying that in order to actually properly use it, contrary to popular belief, you'll have to use it in Sword Oath. It's potency has been reduced and when paired with my damage down Shield Oath status it further becomes weaker (at that point it's not even 150 potency anymore.) I really, really do understand what you guys are saying. I'm the type of person that tries as much as I can to bury aggro before I do anything else and because of how weak I perceive Shield Swipe to be now, I'm holding off on using it with the intention that Sword Oath will make up for it. I'll tell you the change that could be made where I couldn't really argue against what you guys are saying....if my shield skills, while in Shield Oath ignored damage penalty that, would remove any doubt in my mind about this. It's called "Shield Oath" for a reason, ideally I should take a stance where I predominately use my shield to my advantage no just in defense but offense as well, I strike the target where there's an opening with not just my sword but shield as well. Right now this isn't what Shield Oath does.

And now that you've actually got me thinking on the matter I just remembered, Shield Swipe doesn't cost any fucking TP anymore. I'm ecstatic about that.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

You would ignore an ability that is off the global cooldown in order to use skills on the global cooldown more quickly?

I feel like you're missing something here.

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In light of what Reynhart has said, I feel as though I must apologize for being abrasive. I'm trying my best to explain my reasoning right now while also suggesting ways to remove people's doubt about abilities and tank stances. I think I'm on the right track with suggesting the shield skills (and only shield skills) shouldn't be affected by the damage reduction Shield Oath forces. I've been browbeat into a corner by worse people than you and now that someone has brought up the similarity of my aggressor(s) and I acting the same right now, again, I have to apologize.

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

I'm saying that in order to actually properly use it, contrary to popular belief, you'll have to use it in Sword Oath.

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No, you have to use it...anytime, unless you have a better oGCD skill available between these two GCD. But with the proc duration, you can use one oGCD, one GCD, then Shield Swipe.

Shield Swipe doesn't prevent you gaining enmity, since it doesn't really "delay" any skill.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, you have to use it...anytime, unless you have a better oGCD skill available between these two GCD. But with the proc duration, you can use one oGCD, one GCD, then Shield Swipe.

Shield Swipe doesn't prevent you gaining enmity, since it doesn't really "delay" any skill.

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I'll make a bargain with you....I'll use it each and every single time because I see the value you talk about. You and others will be charged with spreading the word that people are reluctant to use an incomplete toolkit. This is demonstrably an issue with Paladin right now. You've heard it all before----A 1.0 remnant (Spirits Within) having its potency reduced exponentially based on my current health upon use (me.....a tank.....that's....supposed to be hit,) Clemency has no place anywhere other than solo content, we lack AoE DPS, our MT DPS is pitiful, etc. I'll take your advice and humbly admit that I'm wrong. I just ask of you to remember why I brought the issues up and tell others. Tell Square.

Notable suggestions:
Shield Skills should ignore Shield Oath penalty.
Shield Swipe remains at its current potency, activation requirement, enmity, cooldown timer, stays oGCD with no TP cost but is a cone AoE to make up for our extremely pitiful AoE damage potential slightly.
Slight enmity enhancements for skills they determine to be deficient so that we can help meet DPS checks slightly more easily.
Something needs to be done with Clemency (either a limited time self HoT that equals out to the mp cost over that limited time ***for the love of the gods, no aura plz***, or it's cast time should be cut in half while maintaining it's extremely high MP cost.)

These aren't a lot of changes, and they certainly won't catapult us into doing 1300 DPs whether it be as OT or MT. They will help resolve the issue of a complete lack of synergy among skills and the design of Paladin while keeping it distinguishable among tanks.

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

I'll make a bargain with you....I'll use it each and every single time because I see the value you talk about. You and others will be charged with spreading the word that people are reluctant to use an incomplete toolkit. This is demonstrably...

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This is...Subjective, not undeniable. Also, I love seeing a group of Paladins arguing toolkit in a Dead Thread about nerfing Warrior. #toorich #Seenitallnow

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

I'll make a bargain with you....I'll use it each and every single time because I see the value you talk about. You and others will be charged with spreading the word that people are reluctant to use an incomplete toolkit.

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Don't worry, I'm participating in several threads debating all the issues for PLD :p

For me though, PLD and DRK need to be pushed in totally new directions for each tank to have a legit spot in any content.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Don't worry, I'm participating in several threads debating all the issues for PLD :p

For me though, PLD and DRK need to be pushed in totally new directions for each tank to have a legit spot in any content.

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Yeah I'm sorta' with you there. Honestly, a portion of the issue is encounter design, yes. I'd wager just as equally large a portion is indeed the awkward direction things are going for jobs. I apologize if earlier I offended you.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

PLD is not "fine" but you can't argue that the new Shield Swipe is definitely a DPS increase over the old Shield Swipe, albeit a very small one.

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Just wanted to add that its also pretty awesome for animation cancelling for skills like RoH and RA. It took SE 2 years to make this skill work like it should have been right from beginning, but better late than never i guess, now lets make Clemency a snipe heal and i would jizz in my pants.

I have a good idea, give warrior their own section in the forums. Tank roles can be for Drk and pld and the war has their own to talk about how great we r

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Originally Posted by TomShane

I have a good idea, give warrior their own section in the forums. Tank roles can be for Drk and pld and the war has their own to talk about how great we r

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That would be awesome.

this is so modest,

need also a section for modest dark and pal like tomshane, to say how great he is :).
this will be a great section for tomshane, so much charisma and modesty i am dazzled.

Could this debate see a change depending on what the devs unleash on us come the 3.2 damage calc changes? I know dps isn't the only reason that WAR is seen as being top dog but it wouldn't be the first time that devs use a change like this to do a "two birds one stone" change of addressing a roles meta as well as balance amongst classes in that role.

"Join Date: Feb 2015"


Veteran WAR's know what I'm talking about.

Why dig the graveyard!!

Holy necrosis

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

"Join Date: Feb 2015"


Veteran WAR's know what I'm talking about.

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the date when the biggest D-bag in the history of tanking decided to join the forum and wrecked it

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Originally Posted by konpachizaraki

the date when the biggest D-bag in the history of tanking decided to join the forum and wrecked it

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Who?

#gottaknow

How about making deliverance work like wanderer's minuet?

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

How about making deliverance work like wanderer's minuet?

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If Deliverance had 30% increased damage I would love it.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

If Deliverance had 30% increased damage I would love it.

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Even with the cast timers?

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

Even with the cast timers?

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Now introducing cast timer to Fell Cleave! Congratulations, you are now an Axe Caster!

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

Even with the cast timers?

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I wouldn't care. I would love a casting Tank as long as abilities deal a significant amount more of damage.

tank take damage so a casting tank would got decast all to times XD
take a certaint amount damage in the game = decast

a tank caster would be efficient when Off tanking maybe

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

Even with the cast timers?

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1.5s of cast time is extremely easy to fill inbetween monster attacks.
The only ral interruption would come from moving out of AoE.

If you want a caster tank then make a caster tank class like rdm or something. Nothing about war concept and theme is related. That's just silly

Kill this thread

*Warriors weapon size decreased by 50%
*Miqo'te female warriors now have completely flat asses
*When in Deliverance player characters pants and boots will turn invisible
*Fell Cleave now makes an annoying honking sound
*Lalafell warriors were deemed unrealistic. Their attack speed has been doubled but attack power reduced by half.
*Elezen warriors never existed in the first place. Replaced with Moogle race.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Kill this thread

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what's this? a weakness? if WARs can't kill this formal enemy maybe they are not so op after all.

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Originally Posted by shao32

what's this? a weakness? if WARs can't kill this formal enemy maybe they are not so op after all.

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lol awesome reply +1

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Originally Posted by shao32

what's this? a weakness? if WARs can't kill this formal enemy maybe they are not so op after all.

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I've tried twice. Its not that war should be nerfed..its just that its nota faceroll tank class. Whoever masters it is s beast.

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Originally Posted by Vurtney

*Miqo'te female warriors now have completely flat asses.

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Not my butt, no~!

I hate the flue...

Is anyone else disappointed how "Ukonvasara" is not an actual hammer but a glowy tooth on a stick?

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Originally Posted by Vurtney

Is anyone else disappointed how "Ukonvasara" is not an actual hammer but a glowy tooth on a stick?

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^^^ I will be glamming it with my Ragnarok Replica.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

^^^ I will be glamming it with my Ragnarok Replica.

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We shouldn't have to do that. Remember the second boss in Praetorium rocking that huge hammer? Give me one of those bad boys any day.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130818202108

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Originally Posted by Vurtney

We shouldn't have to do that. Remember the second boss in Praetorium rocking that huge hammer? Give me one of those bad boys any day.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130818202108

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Ah yes, Mjolnir, seems rather unlikely unless we get to Visit Garlemald or Nero returns to the plot.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

^^^ I will be glamming it with my Ragnarok Replica.

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Hey! show some respect for one true god Ukko!