Ardbert's Party vs the Scions Analysis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

Me, for one. After all, we had a really meaningful encounter in Bronze Lake in the MSQ back in ARR, so we're good.

---

I don't think that was MSQ but side quests. As I remember seeing people who didn't do those at Bronze Lake or did Hildibrand know who Godbert was when we see him in SB. I think he even has a toggle for that quest as that being the 2nd time you've met him. Since I think he shows up at the end of the Gold Saucer unlock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

So? You're acting as if that is a good excuse. I don't believe that. I believe that 6.1 would have been a perfect oppurtinity to introduce new cast members. There is no reason why they wouldn't have been relevant to reveal now. Why wait to reveal them in favor of pushing the Scions onto us yet again only for half of them to just leave after the dungeon? It does not make sense.

---

And here we come to the crux of it. There's a difference between criticizing something because of objective flaws in it, and criticizing it because "the authors didn't do exactly what I wanted them to do with the story, therefore they are bad." The longer any series goes (books, movies, games, etc.), the more tempting it is to stop appreciating what authors write and instead start demanding they write the story we want instead of the story they have the opportunity to tell. They're the authors. Not us. Let's take a step back and get out of our own way here.

Also, I'm sure it would be appreciated if you stopped filling your posts with random claims of mythical "many people agree with me everywhere" despite the complete lack of any such evidence. It doesn't give your argument any weight; it just looks desperate.

I had little to no definite expectations besides give us new characters and lets not go straight into shard hopping. They then proceeded to do both instead of giving us something more grounded. I will continue to tell you what me and the people I see on social media are saying so that some alternate feedback makes it onto the forums which those users avoid. You will not be the sole voice on issues like this one.

I feel like I am being spoken to by same sort of people who not too long ago were saying that "only a minority of players want male Viera" only for them to then release to much fan acclaim. History proved them wrong in the end, and proved people like me right on that issue and several others. I am also quite confident regarding this matter as well.

They may be authors but at the end of the day they are writers and they should be open to critique and feedback. This is essential for their work to improve and for the bar of quality to be maintained. Otherwise, the disconnect between them and the playerbase will only continue to grow. It is time for things to get back on track and for the story to take itself more seriously. Posts like mine are hopefully of use to them as it is essential to consider interpretations of the work from different perspectives. I have outlined why certain things worked and why others missed the mark. Reflection and analysis are things that should be done regularly when it is for a project as big as FFXIV's main storyline.

6.0 and 6.1 represented a complete shift in the writing direction, and I do not appreciate the way in which they abruptly terminated storylines like that of the Garleans and Ancients and left me with little else to latch on to for hype. Their handling of cosmic forces in Endwalker has me concerned with their plans for the Void, especially if we're going to bring the scions in there with us. I have no interest in a continuation of this "conflict of values" when I'd much rather they focus on creating an entertaining and thrilling story first and foremost. To do that they need to do a little bit more with these characters and the cast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I feel like I am being spoken to by same sort of people who not too long ago were saying that "only a minority of players want male Viera" only for them to then release to much fan acclaim. History proved them wrong in the end, and proved people like me right on that issue and several others. I am also quite confident regarding this matter as well.

---

Once again: no. You can't pretend these are the same thing or that you are somehow prophetic for it. Male Viera are an addition to the game which has no downside whatsoever -- both male and female Viera can coexist, alongside many other character options. Meanwhile, what you're asking is a complete disregard of one type of plot for a different type of plot. If your request was "I want more local stakes and new characters in addition to continuing on with epic cosmic adventures with the Scions, that would be comparable. But it isn't -- you're trying to make the argument that what you want should supercede what the the plot and cast of characters currently is.

Players ask for something both on and off the forums. An unrelated individual comes in and claims they are a minority despite growing evidence to suggest otherwise. It is the same situation.

And I will continue to advocate for the plot and direction I have interest in over something that I do not feel is meeting the standards that were established in previous expansions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Players ask for something both on and off the forums. An unrelated individual comes in and claims they are a minority despite growing evidence to suggest otherwise. It is the same situation.

And I will continue to advocate for the plot and direction I have interest in over something that I do not feel is meeting the standards that were established in previous expansions.

---

Not trying to discredit your points or anything, but can you prove with evidence that the players advocating for these changes aren't the minority?

Evidence suggests, at least for certain things (character popularity, as an example) that the players that dislike certain things are in the minority, so it would probably help if you could do things to prove otherwise. Links to surveys/polls, posts on twitter or reddit, blog posts, youtube videos, etc.

i'm shocked you didn't compare cylva's betray with Urianger's or Brandens romantic loss with urianger's

Honestly OP, the only reasonable thing you can ask for that I suppose will jell with what you're looking for in the story is just for the current plot to introduce new characters, and more interesting plotlines. You cant expect for the writing team to just write off characters literal years in the making. Sure we're currently experiencing a bit of a break from the usual Scions saving the world crisis kind of work but the main team will still be around. Its foolish to even think otherwise.

Right now there's we can theorycraft on the direction post-EW is going to go with what we've seen in 6.1 but honestly anything can happen. We might go to the 13rd (I doubt this), head to Meracydia, maybe go into Aerslaent or heck I would love for 7.0 to even just be us finally exploring the New World.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Not trying to discredit your points or anything, but can you prove with evidence that the players advocating for these changes aren't the minority?

Evidence suggests, at least for certain things (character popularity, as an example) that the players that dislike certain things are in the minority, so it would probably help if you could do things to prove otherwise. Links to surveys/polls, posts on twitter or reddit, blog posts, youtube videos, etc.

---

Why should I link you posts from reddit where the downvote feature hides meaningful discussion from view or twitter where a huge majority of people are afraid to voice opposition for fear of the more enthusiastic members of the community? This game does not have many content creators and given their backgrounds I do not consider their commentary to be based in a gaming history that is sufficiently wide enough to analyze this writing from the same viewpoint as me.

The key issue here is the lack of addressing these different viewpoints from the outside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You cant expect for the writing team to just write off characters literal years in the making. Sure we're currently experiencing a bit of a break from the usual Scions saving the world crisis kind of work but the main team will still be around. Its foolish to even think otherwise.

---

It is perfectly natural to retire characters once they have accomplished all they needed to in the story. How they go about exiting the plot can happen in numerous ways, from dramatic death scenes to peaceful transitions into retirement. The members of the main term have served their purpose. There is very little reason to keep them around any longer. The only argument I could make if for Y'shtola, but not if we are to have to witness more scenes in the way of 6.1's attempt at a magical girl transformation sequence.

I do not come here for things like that. I would like a well-crafted Final Fantasy story that can take itself more seriously and is bolder with its characterization. Every day brings us closer to the eventual release of FFXVI and all the other titles that were delayed by the pandemic. FFXIV is now in a position where it must do more with itself in order to maintain the attention of primarily single-player title enjoyers such as myself. 6.2 will be a pivotal moment for this, from both a story and gameplay perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Players ask for something both on and off the forums. An unrelated individual comes in and claims they are a minority despite growing evidence to suggest otherwise. It is the same situation.

And I will continue to advocate for the plot and direction I have interest in over something that I do not feel is meeting the standards that were established in previous expansions.

---

Like someone else said in a different topic, the problem with your arguments is that you keep trying to have it both ways with "minority opinions shouldn't be disregarded" and "my opinion actually represents a silenced, invisible majority" while those arguments are mutually exclusive. If minority opinions shouldn't be ignored, then sure -- it doesn't matter if the number is growing or shrinking or not. But at the same time, that also means that these minorities should not be ignored when it comes whatever you deem to be "more successful" appeals.

Besides that, you and your buddies keep trying to accuse other people of "claiming an opinion is a minority", when it's actually the opposite. You guys keep trying to claim something is a majority or growing minority, or the nebulous "Lots of People", and then act like you're being oppressed when someone objects or asks you to prove it.