job balancing discussion (1.22a-hotfix)

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

No they just listed that way because the actions are learned from that class/job.
For the classes one still can be used by the Jobs as usual with those new changing coming in today's hotfix.



Right now, still might be useless. With level cap increase to 60-65 with new actions/abilities from own/other class/job might turn the game around for PLD.
We only see the game right now unlike devs looking at the big picture.

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I agree although I wish they'd left WAR alone I was just getting to use it more lately. BTW Reinheart, love the new signature.

I am astonished at the quantity of posters in this thread that are under the impression that Bard was somehow subpar DD.

Perhaps I keep getting lucky with my Bards, because the Bards I've partied with have often beaten out melee for DPS, sometimes by a very wide margin. (o.0 ) I am not sure where people get the idea that Bard is lacking.

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Really SE? I leveled Archer not to be Bard. Fine you made it into a bard and then you made it that only one song can be active at a time unless you have 2 or more bards in the party. And now this crap. Seriously give us a ranged DD job and a pure support job. Ranger in FFXI is a really good dd. You can improve bard by making two songs stick. That alone will make up for the things that you have done wrong. A really good brd most definitely can DD.

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Ranger was broken for many years. More broken classes is not what we need for the future. And yes, a Bard can be DD. (>.> ) Bloody good DD at that.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Here's the problem with that logic - you're assuming Archer has no other worthile functions besides damage.

This flatly isn't true. Their unique support functions alone solidify their position and the fact that having two insures both buffs being used encourages stacking - something that should NOT be encouraged at all.

Adding 'On par' Damage functions on top of that, and you've a class that's silently OP.

The payment for arrows (And please, cry to me about your arrow costs, when I can pay 4-6k a piece for my top tier javlins. And yes, I use them. They make all the difference in a pinch.) is the cost for your relatively safe damage.

IMO Bards should not be contenders for 'on par' damage. They should be on a tier slightly below, as they offer more to damage than just their own performance. Unless of course, you want to take a "Cleric's Stance" approach to all this.

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2 things:- 1 if i was crying about arrow cost i wouldnt play the class. but it still rings true that there should be a justifiable reason for the expense. and if it was simply range people would simply take mages. the expense is what you typically pay to be able to do good damage at a decent range.

2: like the guy below you i levelled archer to be a dd class... and in se's logic of trying to make classes viable alongside jobs one would assume that if i wanted to be pure dd i could simply roll effectively as an archer and say screw bard. but waittttttttt the nerf kills an archers damage dealing to and an archer offers no buffs to the party as such. thus without bard songs an archer offers nothing.

without the lightshot spam between skills an archers damage falls a long way short of almost every dd class/job in the game

so the very first line of what you said is wrong bacause an archer has no other worthwhile functions other than its damage

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

I am astonished at the quantity of posters in this thread that are under the impression that Bard was somehow subpar DD.

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it wasn't a sub par dd but with the recent change that prevents lightshot spam between combos there damage dealing just got knocked down a lot.....

I wonder if they nerfed the light shot to make more of an impact bow delay.. just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

2: like the guy below you i levelled archer to be a dd class...

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I originally leveled Gladiator with the promise of being able to choose between DPS and tanking. Unfortunately, when management changed hands so did the promises, and it seems Yoshida and his team want Gladiator/Paladin as tank, and Archer/Bard as support.

I feel your pain, though.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

IMO Bards should not be contenders for 'on par' damage. They should be on a tier slightly below, as they offer more to damage than just their own performance. Unless of course, you want to take a "Cleric's Stance" approach to all this.

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Anything below the mythical 5% is going to turn them into second class citizens. Nerfing damage is not going to help the class in popularity, because "killing enemies with bow&arrow while buffing allies with songs" has a nicer ring than "song spam bitch with notably lesser overall DPS".

Less popular but still important when balancing encounters then creates the princess BRD again.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

2 things:- 1 if i was crying about arrow cost i wouldnt play the class.

2: like the guy below you i levelled archer to be a dd class... and in se's logic of trying to make classes viable alongside jobs one would assume that if i wanted to be pure dd i could simply roll effectively as an archer and say screw bard. but waittttttttt the nerf kills an archers damage dealing to and an archer offers no buffs to the party as such. thus without bard songs an archer offers nothing.

without the lightshot spam between skills an archers damage falls a long way short of almost every dd class/job in the game
so the very first line of what you said is wrong bacause an archer as no other worthwhile functions other than its damage

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You're exadurating your nerf desprately.

If all you want to do is be a ranged DD, don't switch to Bard. Archer gains more damage functions as its class than it gains damage abilities as it's job, Bard. If your Linkshell isn't cool with it, find another linkshell. There are 8 party slots and 7 classes/jobs.

Otherwise, Cry more that you can't weave faster than a Melee Job. Every single one of our skills delay our melee attacks, while yours was left untouched, safe at a distance, with support functions to boot. You're not suffering any more of a loss than what every other damage class in the game has to suffer with and you're over-blowing the impact on your damage because you want vindication for your hurt feelings.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for that sort of whining.

You have damage at range. You do not need clear line of sight in many cases, you do not get impeded by pathing barriers (small, impassible ledges) and you do already have an insured party slot, regardless of your feelings about being a Bard. You will still have good damage against enemies after this patch, as what you lost is also offset by the critical attack changes, and the fact that your main statistic is dexterity.

Honestly, you don't have problems, don't try to make it like this balance tweak made one for you.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Anything below the mythical 5% is going to turn them into second class citizens.

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When their popularity dips below Dragoon, we can talk. But I warn you, that'll never happen.
"Princess Mentality." Will likely make a return regardless, because they again circumvent MP balancing issues. Making a mountain out of a molehill like this is the least of the worries. These guys are no-risk Corsairs - they shouldn't be able to match DPS with a dedicated DD job in any circumstance outside dropping their job's benefits for more Damage-orientating skills, and then, they can go ahead and compete for party slot like every other DD.

It's impossible for them to be regulated to "Song-Whore" given the game's and the jobs base mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

You're exadurating your nerf desprately.

If all you want to do is be a ranged DD, don't switch to Bard. Archer gains more damage functions as its class than it gains damage abilities as it's job, Bard. If your Linkshell isn't cool with it, find another linkshell. There are 8 party slots and 7 classes/jobs.

Otherwise, Cry more that you can't weave faster than a Melee Job. Every single one of our skills delay our melee attacks, while yours was left untouched, safe at a distance, with support functions to boot. You're not suffering any more of a loss than what every other damage class in the game has to suffer with and you're over-blowing the impact on your damage because you want vindication for your hurt feelings.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for that sort of whining.

You have damage at range. You do not need clear line of sight in many cases, you do not get impeded by pathing barriers (small, impassible ledges) and you do already have an insured party slot, regardless of your feelings about being a Bard. You will still have good damage against enemies after this patch, as what you lost is also offset by the critical attack changes, and the fact that your main statistic is dexterity.

Honestly, you don't have problems, don't try to make it like this balance tweak made one for you.

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People like this make baby jesus cry.

Think of the changes that you get from Archer to Bard... One Weapon Skill, and you can only have one song active at a time. While other jobs got much more.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

You're exadurating your nerf desprately.

~snip~

Honestly, you don't have problems, don't try to make it like this balance tweak made one for you.

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Hyrist, you're my favorite person on the forums today.