FF14 Becoming More "Solo Friendly" is bad, Maybe

I want to dispel some myths the younger players might have about the "MMOs of eld" that I see popping in this thread.

You guys are putting the cart before the horse. The content in the older MMOs wasn't designed for group gameplay to "encourage/force interactions" - it was designed around the group gameplay because majority people were already playing in groups.
Was it because of the difficulty? Not really, levelling in WoW on release in the end of 2004 was perfectly solo-friendly and yet most people at least for the first year or 18 months were playing predominantly in groups.
Why? Because most of them didn't know wtf they were doing. There were no guides, wikis, youtube etc. There was no discord and MSN messenger at a time didn't support sharing pcitures so you coudn't even post a screenshot of the map to show where you need to go (if there wasn't a quest marker - but on release most people didn't even know there WAS a map)
So people grouped up naturally (for example I remember a guy showing me and a bunch of noobs way to adjacent zone by leading us there as it was easier than to try and explain in chat where to go to on the map) and devs based the content around groups because it was something already existing. As soon as youtube/wiki/etc became widespread more and more players started to play solo.

So basically if you want people to play in groups and have "natural" social interaction you need to either go back in time to 2003/2004 or somehow remove wiki/youtube/discord/MMS/whatsapp etc and also make players forget their 20 years of playing MMOs.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I don't see where the dungeons have been dumbed down with SHB or EW story dungeons. In addition Criterian dungeons are coming which won't be trust dungeons so the team seems to be working toward more midcore content. Obviously we don't know until they arrive.

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Per yoshi p's words, dungeons have been streamlined since ShB. Its very easy to tell once you get to the post patch dungeons like anamnesis or heroes gauntlet. OR especially Matoya's Relict. This expansion the only dungeon that seemed somewhat complex if you want to call it that is Zot, or the dead ends. But most dungeons this expansion have constant forced single pulls that just make them trivial.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Per yoshi p's words, dungeons have been streamlined since ShB. Its very easy to tell once you get to the post patch dungeons like anamnesis or heroes gauntlet. OR especially Matoya's Relict. This expansion the only dungeon that seemed somewhat complex if you want to call it that is Zot, or the dead ends. But most dungeons this expansion have constant forced single pulls that just make them trivial.

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Link please. Most dungeons are at least 2 pack pulls maybe you're playing a different game.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

He said it during the EW fanfest lol. You can look it up yourself. Zot has multiple single packs, same with babel, same with vanaspati. I think ktisis is the first one without any.

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No you're claiming he said it. I watched the fanfest and I don't recall his saying that but this is pretty typical of your posts making statements about what he said and not providing a direct link. You're claiming he said it and the burden is on you to prove it. I find the main story dungeons fun and challenging enough and I've run them plenty clearing them with my main and alts.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

No offense, but im not willing to waste a few hours to try and prove what can be proved by stepping into most of the EW and ShB post patch dungeons... If you dont think matoyas relict is streamlined idk what to tell you

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Prove he said it? I'm waiting. You're making the claim I don't believe it. You're certainly entitled to your opinion which I don't personally agree with.

And my post limit is reached so I'll respond here.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Link please. Most dungeons are at least 2 pack pulls maybe you're playing a different game.

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He said it during the EW fanfest lol. You can look it up yourself. Zot has multiple single packs, same with babel, same with vanaspati. I think ktisis is the first one without any.

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Originally Posted by Felis-Silvertis

I want to dispel some myths the younger players might have about the "MMOs of eld" that I see popping in this thread.

The content in the older MMOs wasn't designed for group gameplay to "encourage/force interactions" - it was designed around the group gameplay because majority people were already playing in groups.

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Content in older MMOs like EverQuest was designed around forcing group interactions because it was impossible to do solo outside of special cases on one or two classes and even then only limited types of content. So MMOs got the reputation that you had to group with others to play them and that was the "right" way they should be played. Not to mention there was no appreciable solo or group content really outside of massive amounts of grinding and they were all about raiding, which required group gameplay.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Link please. Most dungeons are at least 2 pack pulls maybe you're playing a different game.



No you're claiming he said it. I watched the fanfest and I don't recall his saying that but this is pretty typical of your posts making statements about what he said and not providing a direct link. You're claiming he said it and the burden is on you to prove it.

And my post limit is reached so I'll respond here.

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Youre the one implying dungeons havent been dumbed down when he literally said they have been. Wheres your proof they havent been then if you want to play that card?No offense, but im not willing to waste a few hours to try and prove what can be proved by stepping into most of the EW and ShB post patch dungeons... If you dont think matoyas relict isnt streamlined idk what to tell you

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Content in older MMOs like EverQuest was designed around forcing group interactions because it was impossible to do solo outside of special cases on one or two classes and even then only limited types of content. So MMOs got the reputation that you had to group with others to play them and that was the "right" way they should be played. Not to mention there was no appreciable solo or group content really outside of massive amounts of grinding and they were all about raiding, which required group gameplay.

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This is common misconception. EverQuest was designed to be graphical DikuMUD and like I said the content was not designed to force grouping, but rather was designed given that players are already playing in groups . MUDs like tabletop D&D cannot be played solo at all and naturally this mentality transferred over to MMOs. So yes, it was the "right" way to play back then (similar to how even now the "right" way to play table top games is with other people) but it wasn't EverQuest/DAOC/UO or any other MMO that "forced" it.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Underlined: This is completely incorrect as tanks are still designed to move in and out of tank stance. There was just more of a benefit to doing this correctly and optimally than now as it would improve DPS output. Now the only benefit to doing this optimally is not stealing threat off the other tank which is the primary reason you even stance danced to begin with.

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You either know exactly what I meant about moving in and out of tank stance or you didn't play during Heavensward. I was under the impression that you were playing back then.

Tank stance was a debuff for damage back then. It is not so at this point in time. Moving in and out of tank stance was a means of increasing damage, not about threat at all. The meta was 'tanks out of tank stance = more damage', along with 'tanks wearing strength gear to more damage, healers adjust'.

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Originally Posted by Felis-Silvertis

This is common misconception. EverQuest was designed to be graphical DikuMUD and like I said the content was not designed to force grouping, but rather was designed given that players are already playing in groups . MUDs like tabletop D&D cannot be played solo at all and naturally this mentality transferred over to MMOs. So yes, it was the "right" way to play back then (similar to how even now the "right" way to play table top games is with other people) but it wasn't EverQuest/DAOC/UO or any other MMO that "forced" it.

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They could have designed it against tabletop design but they made the choice to force the group interaction. And it absolutely was forced. It was a common complaint on the forums that we couldn't do anything solo or small group and Smedley and especially Brad McQuaid told everyone it was The Vision. I played the game for over 10 years.

The only reason tabletop is played with others is because you're creating the story with everyone as you go. The DM has a base story but your rolls affect how combat goes and your roleplay can take the planned story in different directions. Happens in the games I play in all the time and the DM sometimes has to just roll with it. Even if the DM is doing a scenario, there can still be some slight variation.

But the world of an MMO is not affected by a single player and there was and is no reason to force group interaction except for their design choice.

I do not think making the game more solo-friendly is a bad thing. People have different ways they want to play the game, and many will choose to play the game to experience the story rather then the social content, at least at first. Its easy for many people to jump into group content without a sweat, but there are those that do find such things intimidating, even with how automated the Duty Finder is. I feel this will be a way to ease them into the gameplay before taking on group content. Its not the only MMO that has taken that path either. In Elder Scrolls Online, my main home before landing back in Eorzea, all of the main story content can be done solo. Its only the Dungeons that you need to find groups with, and whilst they often do have connections to the overall plot you do not miss anything big by not doing them.